Bear Market Learnings, Bull Market Signs
Speaker 2 Hey, Sierra, Alexander, David. Hey, Clayton. Fair. I was just putting some pins up top. Have Clayton's art spotlight thread added in. I think I might have been covering the mic too a little with my finger. Got that up. I also had an nftstats.eth post because I'm gonna reference some of the his material today, and I wanted to give credit to him. I read quite a bit of his stuff over the past couple days. So I think that'll be helpful with the bull market science part. And then I'm particularly interested in the bear market learnings. I think that's the more interesting thing. I love to hear how people have thought about any period of time, but certainly, I think a bear market that gives us the time whether it's from, you know, beginning of twenty twenty two or if it was March 2022 or whatever.
We're still talking roughly a year and a half, and I think it's incredibly interesting to, like, look back and hopefully have thought of something that, you know, you got out of this period. I have in multiple bear in multiple bear markets and bulls asked people, like, what have you learned from this? And I've tried to write down my own thoughts as well, so I've given it some thought. It doesn't actually necessarily lead to anything. I will often still make the same mistakes in the next pair or the next bowl even with some type of retrospective. But I do think in life and in general, it's helpful to kinda write down things and because I think it gets out of your head and you have to more conceptualize it.
So I'm hoping that a few people will come up today and talk either about bull market signals or more even likely, hopefully, bear market learnings, things you've learned in the last year, year and a half, things like that, because I think it's I think it's quite interesting. But I don't usually do a long intro. We don't have guest days, so I can go as long as I want. Very excited to have Cleat and Fair here today. Clete, how are you doing?
Cleat Hey. Hey, Paul, Piper, GM and DN, everyone. Really great to see you all as usual, and I am looking forward for today's chat. It is always so fun and informative when we have an open mic space. Love that everyone brings forward different opinions and ideas. And I always hear things I had no idea about, which will be the case today probably because I have no talent of reading the market whatsoever. So I will be all ears, guys. So you're all invited to share your mind related to the topic of the day. Don't be shy. You already know this is a such a chill stage. No one will judge you. All opinions are welcome as long as it's not targeting someone or hurtful, of course. You know the deal. We love hearing from you. Let's get going.
Speaker 2 Love that, Cle. Fair, how are you doing?
Speaker 3 GM GM. I am heating some water, and I have to decide if I'm making coffee or tea. That's my second coffee So, yes, let's get rolling. I love the you know, that you pinned some stuff on the market. Like, Cleash, it's not my strength to analyze the market, but, of course, I've been doing a lot of that lately because of Vitruvio. But I would love to see your takes on that pop. So super excited to be here today and discuss all that we have learned in the past couple of years and see how we can help each other to continue to grow.
Speaker 2 I love how you put that there. So my plan is and I'm definitely in need, people come up and speak because we're gonna run out of stuff. But I did put together an overview on the bull market signs. I felt like last week, you know, there was kind of an uptick even kind of in, you know, auction sales, especially on foundation. I know we had somebody come in and just open a bunch of them, but I definitely felt like there was an increase. At one point, we had, like, a 170 live auctions on foundation. Anecdotally, at times, it's felt like there's been a few more one of one sales, maybe a little bit more action on SuperRare. But I did go into the numbers this morning. I even logged into Dune dashboard, Dune analytics.
They probably need the eye data, and I actually use some of my credits to update the super rare one because it was two year or excuse me. It was two months old or, excuse me, two days old. So I wanted the most current data. So I have a bit. So I'm gonna give a quick market overview, then I welcome people to come up and talk about things. I've been a little bit more in the PFP and, I don't know, more liquid collections of late just because it's something that I've been working on for other projects. And so I have a little experience in that. So you'll hear some brief anecdotes on this. But I thought I'd get in here and just kinda give an overview. And then if people have thoughts, that's great.
If not, I'm gonna ask fair and clear what they learned in a bear market to give me a break, and then we'll hopefully go to other people as well. So I think the good news is the good news, especially if you're looking at PFP focused marketplaces, is we've had our third day of record highs going back in the last three months. There is definitely a lot of action in the PFP space. Now a lot of those blur, you know, which I view as not very meaningful. But OpenSea numbers, which I think are a better proxy for real sales, are also seeing their highest volume as well. So real trades are actually happening in that space. Like that, I have a 100% confidence in because I'm also, like, in that space. We're seeing about 12,000 Ethereum East traded in one day.
This is largely driven by PFP sales, but Artbox is also in the mix, which can be kind of an early proxy for getting to one zero one with Artbox having about 2,000,000 USD sales in this last week. Granted, there was some high profile ringers, Fidenzas, but, you know, we're definitely seeing Artbox sales. We are seeing unique buying laws go up a bit, but it's still very close to what we were seeing about three months ago. It's a similar number of people on the space, which means the action we're seeing is probably largely people already in the system but have been sitting on the star sidelines and are starting to buy again. We've seen this in crypto for the past few months. There hasn't been a ton of new people coming in, but people on the sidelines have started to put money into crypto, into different meme coins, into some DeFi, into some historic coins.
So we're starting to see that at least get into PFPs now a bit. So what led this? I'm not a 100% on this. I followed it a little bit. I actually was not following the punk sales very closely. That's one thing I haven't been focused on because right now, it's probably not out of my league to buy a punk, but it's not, like, top of mind to me. So I think there were 72 punk sales on the official punk marketplace in the last four days. It seems like that started to lead it very closely with crypto cryptodes. Floor doubling cryptodes is the first thing I saw that was kind of trending. There may have been other things, but my one of my cryptodes was sold in that run up, and I was not expecting it. So that happened. There's been more than 600 secondary sales of meme cards.
Fair, I know you're you know, you hold quite a few meme cards. There's been about 600 secondary sales in the past three days. I'm seeing it up probably floors are up at least 50% on there. Some of the higher profile things are not up as much. Some of kind of the mid stuff is up, you know, sometimes up above 50%, but I'd say 50% is probably accurate. Other movements, cool cats, doodles, on chain monkeys, forgotten rooms, creeps, crypto dick butts, dead fellas. I actually shared an OG crypto dick but I almost bought, which probably should have in a couple of chats that was, you know, well below the floor. In the more popular season three, those have gone up, like, 30%. Cool cats close to double. Duels have doubled. So we're seeing lots of PIP projects go up. Deadfellas, which I love.
Shout out to Betty and, you know, that team. It was awesome to see, like, their floor price double with, you know, pretty significant volume. I had Deadfellas. There was a slight premium that sold in that, so I I observed that as well. On other chains briefly, ordinals are up. We're seeing movement in kind of some of the ordinal popular ordinal projects. While SOL is up in terms of crypto price, the SOL art marketplaces, which I know quite a few people started doing you know, selling on different sole marketplaces. Those have largely stayed flat. So will is it possible it could go back? Absolutely. Most of this money is, you know, driven by, you know, either people have gotten gains from being in crypto for the last two months speculating or they're on the sidelines or they came in.
And some people are probably just motivated, but we're not seeing a ton of new people. So, absolutely, we could see, you know, these PFP gains, you know, drop back. I will stop briefly. I have some comments on the fine art marketplaces, but I just wanna make sure, Clay or Fair, you didn't have any comments or questions off the top, and then I will get into foundation super rare. And then I'm close to done, so we'll we'll see how that goes.
Cleat I'll just say this sounds hopeful because most of the things are, like, flying through my head. I just don't have that kind of mind. I just don't get the numbers. I get the feeling. That's how it goes with me. But I'm going to say that this is the vibe I've been looking for, that someone's explaining things to me in in a enthusiastic manner because in in our house, it goes like that. You know, I asked my husband that is it time, and he starts to talk about how the mechanics of the market work, and I lost my interest completely. And so when someone talks about how the things are livening up, then that's a good sign for me. So thank you, Pop. I think I think it is okay to get our hopes up hopes up a little bit, I guess.
Speaker 2 Thanks, Aklee. I think that's accurate. I feel really bullish, but I'm often wrong about about my feelings of these things. So I definitely like, as an overall thing, I feel pretty bullish. I mean, I like, things like Ethereum and Bitcoin, very bullish on Bitcoin. You know, it's probably had a run up already, but then it starts to go down. Obviously, art is what I care about most, I'm hopeful that people in this space have I mean, all of this is motivated largely by the idea that I hope we get more collectors of this space that kinda comes out of this movement. Because you do see these movements where it's usually it's crypto, and then it's PFPs, and then it often tends to be, you know, you know, larger collections, whether it's kind of meme cards or it's art blocks or it's things like that.
And then, eventually, it gets to the one on one market. And I would welcome people. I see Christopher's out there. I'd welcome people who've kind of experienced maybe the NFT space longer. Anyone is welcome to come up. Awesome to see Ben Meadows in the audience. You're always welcome to come up as well. And anybody else, but I do wanna shout people out. Mandala, I'd love to have you up as well. Phoebe, I don't know how much you do spaces, but you are always welcome too. And, Sierra, everybody is welcome, but I'll try and name some people. So I'm hopeful. We get gets us more collectors. You know, I know we've had lots of discussions about the type of collectors we want and things like that. I mean, I'd love to get there, but a lot of these people made money in something. They're adjacent to the space.
They get turned on to how cool, you know, this one of one space, how amazing it is, how much great art there is, and they get in there. So we will probably have some finance bros, but hopefully, we'll have some more people broadly beyond that as well. And Ben up as well. And, Ben, great to have you up here. Past guests, I know you keep up so much with different things in the space, both technical and art. Shout out to the ABC crew and the world that you have. I'm gonna go into and feel free to jump in anytime. I'm gonna briefly wrap up this kind of the sales part by talking about super rare numbers, and then we can get into some broader discussion. So this is all from the Dune dashboard. You can find it by typing super rare Dune dashboard into Google.
There's a couple, but I think the first one that comes up is probably the one that's it's not depreciated as current numbers. So super rare sell sales numbers. For context, we're gonna go way back. March 2021, 3,000 plus sales. K? That's a lot. Can't even almost imagine. March of this year even, there were still 1,000 sales. That was probably a high number, but around there, we were having around that kinda going in. May, 341. Each month since June and September, kind of all the way through to you know, June through September had 400 sales on SuperAir, and that includes both primary and secondary. So if something sold on the secondary, that's there. October, we had 50 more. We had 452. So far in November, we're around 90. So this month isn't looking to be much higher. Like, anecdotally, I feel like, oh, there's more sales.
I know Dom got a photography auction going. I don't know. I just see I just feel like more sales, but then I also kind of I've I'm I'll finish up by talking about foundation, and it's not quite as good there. Although, we don't have the numbers because they don't have an API. So if we look at volume, in October, USD volume was about $500,000. You right now, we're at a 160. So, similarly, we're kinda right there, maybe slightly higher in USD volume, but it's very similar. So foundation doesn't have an API, so we just have to kind of guess or compile info information. It looks like last week, you know, we I remember we had a 200 plus auction day or at least, like, there was a 150 going on at once. But that has dropped down quite a bit. It's closer more than normal 50 to 70.
And, actually, just before I went on, I looked and there was, like, 40. So while I am seeing what seems to be more sales than my timeline, I think I'm just kind of, you know, like most of the time, kind of looking at the highlights and being like, oh, this sale. I don't think we're seeing a ton of sales going on in space, but I welcome anyone to come comment in on that. But that just kinda provides a basic overview of what I'm thinking. And because I'm like, Cleat, I'm not I'm I'm a numbers person, but when it comes to, like, macro, like, broader view, I'm not often trying to figure out, like, the broader things because it just doesn't, you know, matter to me. So I figured I'd least go through the numbers today because I knew SuperAir, you know, has that API and give an idea.
So if you're like, I'm not feeling any bullish tendencies there, you're not alone. Like, we're still kind of in a slow market, but I do think, as Cleat said, it's kind of at least a potential hopeful sign. So I don't know. Ben, Cleat, Fair, if you have anything to speak about on this or just thoughts, anecdotes, anything. Otherwise, I think we'll probably after that, after we talk about it a bit, we'll go into some kind of bear market learnings because I find that particularly interesting. Clique?
Cleat I would love to give the mic to Ben first, but, you know, just a really quick comment on the collecting and collectors and increasing in numbers. I think when it starts to go good, it's only gets better at that at that point because it's not just only collectors who collect. It's just it also the the the artists are also doing this share among one another because when there's activity and when an artist can make sale, we also see it in the current market as well, but it's just way too little than, you know, when compared to the pool. We start collecting among each other, so it goes, like, twice as collectors in in the in the market. So I think that's wonderful to have even more sales right now, and I only can hope, and I think so, it will go only better from that point.
Speaker 2 I like the amplification idea. I mean, it's true, but I think, like, actually speaking it out, it's something I hadn't really considered. So I like that. Ben drops, we're gonna get them added back on. But that's totally true, Cleat. Like, when lots of sales are happening, it just allows for artists to be able to buy things that they wanted. And a lot of us, you know, probably are waiting to buy some things just because, you know, we need sales or additional, you know, source of income. So that makes total sense. Ben, you had your hand up before you dropped. Love to hear anything you're thinking about. Yeah. So thinking a
Ben little bit about well, I guess, first of all, can you hear me okay?
Ben You know, obviously, I've been in crypto since 2012, 2011, somewhere in there. So I've seen a couple of bear and bull cycles. And I would say, you know, each one feels different. Right? And and while some metrics look a little more bullish, you know, I was listening to a report the other day about, you know, total value in stablecoins is up right now, which is generally, you know, indicative of coming into a bull. There's literally more capital kind of in crypto sitting on the sidelines ready to be deployed. Gas is way up both on, you know, the Bitcoin side. Their fees are way up. On the Ethereum side, we're at about $1.90 right now. Bitcoin's at $1.50, you know, which is another indicator of at least volume. Some things happening on the network. So in some ways, it feels kinda like a bull.
And then in other ways, it feels very different than the last bull, but I think that's what we're gonna see. I was I was thinking about some of the things that are different. Right? So floors are up, but it's not like twenty twenty one where floors are up all over the place. It's very sporadic. Obviously, PFPs aren't doing as well, but art's all over the place. It's not like it's just one on ones or just small collections or just generative art. Very sporadic. One of The interesting things is, I think, we're seeing a lot of new functionality and new tooling both on the Bitcoin ordinal side. Obviously, they're so new. They're coming up with, you know, new things every day. But even on the ETH side, you have things like transient labs that are out there kinda pushing boundaries and and trying some new things with their contract.
You have DIID and, some of the guys that are pushing boundaries on the on chain side of things right now coming up with new tools. So that feels a little different. It's not just new platforms. It's people actually doing new things right now in the middle of this. And then the other interesting thing is the market does feel less exuberant than it did last time around. I mean, it feels some of the metrics show that we're almost in a bull, but it feels more like a bear still. Does that mean we're coming out of a bear into a bull, or is it just a different kind of bull? I don't know. And then the other interesting thing I was thinking about when you were mentioning marketplaces is how much the marketplaces have changed in the last two years.
You know, if you look at SuperRare today, and, you know, they're probably not gonna love it if I say this, but they've got less brand today than they had a year or two ago. It means less, I would argue, nowadays, to be a superhero artist than it meant a year or two ago. And they've gotten a little stale with some of their tooling. Right? They haven't been the most innovative. OpenSea, you know, with the whole deal with royalties, you know, the market's love for OpenSea is is not very high at the moment. Foundation, however, has come out significantly better over the last year in terms of sort of artist perception. They're more artist friendly. I would say their cache has actually gone up a little bit. And then we've lost some marketplaces. Right? AvantArt is gone, which was a huge loss. They were great for artists.
Versum over on the Tezzo side is gone. And then you've got new guys. Right? You've got Transient Labs just coming out and doing new things, and they they didn't exist a couple years ago. And then I think we're also seeing on the gen art side, not all of it's public right now, but there's some consolidation occurring, on the generative art side of the world. They're opening up into more layer twos. So we're starting to see some really interesting generative art projects on layer twos. FX Hash is getting ready to move into Ethereum more. And then the other interesting thing is while we're talking about going into potentially a more bullish situation, we've also seen layoffs in some of the biggest marketplaces, projects. You know, everybody from YUGA to OpenSea to Proof to Super Air has had huge layoffs, recently too.
I'm not talking about six months ago, you know, in the midst of the bear, like, in the last month. So, anyway, all of those things make this feel very different than the depth of the bear, but also very different than the last bull cycle. So that's my two cents on that.
Speaker 2 I love that, Ben. And it's so true on layoffs. You know, I was I was really surprised to see the open sea layoffs because they have I don't know what their, you know, war chest term I use, but, like, I mean, they still have to have tons of funds from their last raise. So but I don't know how aggressively they went out and hired. So for them to, like, you know, lay off half their workforce is, you know, so big. I know they're not, you know, they're still relatively new. I did read today the information had that people who hold OpenSea from the last fund round fund raising round have actually decreased the value to 10%. So decreased it, you know, 90% of the value gone since the highs, which makes, you know, sense in the fact that, you know, as a total, they raised in, like, I believe, peak bull market.
So it makes sense that their value be 10%. But not only are are JPEGs you know, not speaking to Fine Arts specifically, but not only are JPEGs worth you know, have dropped 90% or more, but, like, literally, OpenSea has had that reflected in their evaluation. And then also speaks to some of the things you were saying about how they do things. But I think that it definitely is different. I absolutely wanna echo the foundation. I think foundation has done amazing work. I mean, we're you know, worlds and extending it off on to, like, moments. And just, like, overall, it's it's just like a place that I like to go largely because a lot of the artists I like sell on there. But, also, like, I found increasingly more and more audience excuse me, more and more artists list on there.
So it's something that I've really appreciate, and I do think it speaks to you know, foundation doesn't give us any data, so it's hard to know, like, you know, how they're doing a person. But, you know, SuperAir is kind of the data we have. So it gives an idea of let's not say, like, we're in a, like, one of one, you know, bull yet for sure, but I do think it's helpful. And you speak to a lot of the specifics on how things go. So I appreciate all that. Okay. I'm gonna ask you one more question to you, Ben, if you're okay with it. And then I'm definitely going to go to Cleat and Ferrer to find out what your learnings are in the bear market. I know, Cleat, earlier this week, I love to steal your answers. I'm I think you even posted that you didn't learn anything.
I was like like, what about all the stuff we did? Is that meaningless? So Clint can Clint can answer that out of that out of there. Ben, I wanted to ask you just briefly. You said some things, you know, you noticed are up. Like, what's on your radar that you've seen go up that just kind of as, like, an anecdotal point of reference? Like, you're in this space a lot. What have you been like? Oh, it's interesting to see that going up.
Ben So it it's funny because some of the stuff is, you know, up that I didn't think was gonna go up. Right? So you're talking about, cryptodes or I'm trying to remember what Moonbirds are up, you know, from, I don't know, about one up to two and a half. There's a lot of stuff like that where there's been a significant increase, and then there's other stuff. We were talking about this, pop just the other day that I'm surprised hasn't gone up. Right? So, like, snow froze new, forward slash, I thought was going to be a for sure, you know, small collection size compared to Squiggles 2,000. So I bought one under 0.7, and it's down around point five. I still think long term, that's gonna go up over probably one eighth. I'd be really shocked if it didn't.
But the question is, you know, why are some things up, right, and others aren't right now? Goblin Town's way up as a percentage. You know? So that's what I can't figure out right now is is why, you know, you're just seeing odd things popping off right now and other things continue, sort of slowly trending downwards. So it it doesn't feel like a bull from that standpoint.
Speaker 2 I think that's a good point. And one thing is that that sticks out to me is that a lot of the things that have popped have a little nostalgia. And I don't mean, like, you know, like, nostalgia, like, painting, you know, like that. But, like, literally, like, goblin town. Like, people think, oh, that was once at 70, and I can buy it now at point one 5. Or doodles were once at 40, and I coulda got one at one. You know, on doodles, I might be exaggerating a bit. Or, you know, cool cats is bumped. You know, I don't know what the high. I think it literally hit a floor of 20. You know, at one point, you could buy those for happy. So I wonder I think it's it's interesting that some of this has been a bill a little bit more nostalgia buying from people who've been in this space.
We said a lot of the money in PFPs has come just from the sidelines. It's not new entrants. So this bump could be kind of focused on more like, well, if it's gonna go up, I'd like to get in on, you know, this because I remember when kind of thing, which also could play into ours. Like, people have stuck around. As stuff starts to go up, people would be like, you know, I wanna get in on that. But I don't know. That kinda came to mind because it has been very kind of I'm not super historic projects, but projects that kind of, you know, go back and were top of mind at least in some respect even if it's goblins because it was such kind of like an anti collection for a while. I don't know. That came to mind. Okay. Let's talk about what we learned.
I'm gonna go to Clay first since I kind of added you a bit on what you learned. It does not have to be a long answer. You can keep these you can make them as long or as short as you want, but I'm just some learning or something you personally have taken from the bear market so far. Cleen?
Cleat Sorry for my earlier answer, Bob, because I tend to mean, I love every kind of knowledge and information, but I mostly tend to, like, lean on learning things and, you know, as in personal growth and personality. So since they're kinda abstract also, they're, like, learned at the back of my head head, and I don't necessarily, like, spot them right when when the question is asked. So, yeah, I had time to think about it. So, of course, I've learned something. So one thing I now have a better understanding on is that I mean, we always talk about this, but talking about it and learning is different things, so I'm gonna say it. I think it's the importance of sticking together. I really don't think any human should be alone doing anything. Please excuse me if you disagree, my dear lone wolfs out there.
But I really think people left so far didn't only left because they couldn't sustain financially. That's, of course, the part of the deal, but I don't think they had the right connections. And when we say connection, having collectors and, like, a network comes to mind, that's not the case I'm talking about in this case. Like, I am around about two years, and every step of the way, I needed some mental support. And I believe like, believe me when I say this. I don't have a weak mind. On the contrary, I I I believe I do have a strong one, yet having support doesn't prove that one is weak. In here, it actually gives you a better foundation to stand your ground, like, consider other perspectives to benefit from and bet like, better data for analyzing and manual whatever the market is, be our be our own bull.
So my peace of mind is to the conversation if you're still here, you probably have this backup and support anyway. It might be a good time to invest in them further. And if you're new to the space, it's a good time to start building real, honest, and strong connections. That's what I'm going to say for now.
Speaker 2 That's so well played, Cleen. I really wanna say that you stole my answer, but I did not have anything articulated like that. So I can't even I can't even say that. That was so well put. I love that. Community people and still, like, not necessarily taking away your own identity, but sport. I don't even wanna summarize it, but so well done. Fair, any insights from you as it relates to this bear market?
Speaker 3 Of course. Well, thanks for the opportunity of sharing my thoughts. Well, first of all, the I wanted to just touch base quickly on the on the PFP situation. I will say, I do believe in that chart that I think Ozoma put in one of his newsletters that, you know, the funnel where, you know, the crypto gets pumped and then PFPs starts rising and then, you know, people make money. And eventually, it comes to us on the one of one market or the art market itself can be additions too. So there is, like, a a truth to that. I really believe in it. I will say, like, personally, I have never really made money on PFPs, except for a couple of memes that I flipped. And every time I flipped, it was with the intention to put the money on actual art.
So, you know, like, that's my extent of experience on flipping, and I'm not very good at it. I'll be very honest. I've made the worst mistakes when choosing what what to invest on, but I I've always had the intention of making money to actually buy art. And as for the bear market, you know, like, I think the toughest thing is that we are really bound to the to the fluctuation of crypto. So we're still counting on collectors, which are people that have invested on crypto. So I I think, you know, like, a lot of people joined with the expectation of making a lot of money. And, of course, you know, like, we are here for something much bigger. You know, it's an amazing technology, and I believe in what we're building for that reason.
Not so much in, you know, the opportunity of making a lot of money because a lot of people have done that, but it's not for everyone. So I don't judge people that have left because at the end of the day, people have to make a living, and not everyone can be here, and, you know, stick together for through the bear because, of course, they have bills to pay. And if it's not paying, to be here, you know, why why, can they they can't afford to be here. So when money comes back, I'm sure a lot of people will come back, and that is great. I'm here to receive everyone back with open arms. I am very, very grateful for all the people that I've met so far, and I'm with Clint on that where, you know, like, the community has helped so much for us to stick together and, you know, like, continue with the vision.
I think more important than anything, like, for us who stuck together through the bear is because we believe in the vision. Now what I have actually learned through the bear is that we cannot count on this as a sustainable income until we change how we're doing business here. And by that, what I mean is that we have to go mainstream. It's like, you know, like, it's a beautiful thing when we think about, you know, like, it's a it's a a innovation and we're, you know, like, we're the people ahead of the curve and we're creating all of this. But we I I don't think we have to be so proud of being exclusive because we're not going to go very far if we continue to be so exclusive. So I believe in tools that we're building to bring mainstream collectors mainly.
You know, like, of course, artists, will go anywhere that they can make money. You know, I'm an artist myself, have been for over twenty years. And, you know, like, we need to make a living. So if there's money somewhere, I'm sure artists will come. So, that will be the attractive for artists coming from the, you know, the mainstream and traditional industry. But what is the attractive for actual collectors to join us? And that's where I think, you know, like, we have to change. So the bear market has taught me that the way things are done is not sustainable. So, we're pushing to get collectors from outside, and I have a lot of, a lot of ideas for, you know, like, for this and not I don't think it's the place to discuss those ideas, but I'm just saying that, we have to change how things are done, right now.
So that's what I've learned, and I don't know if that helps anyone with those thoughts, but that's it.
Speaker 2 I love that. That's really good. Yeah. I don't I mean, I'd love for it to mainstream. I just don't know how to get there. It's probably like, I'd love to hear your more of your thoughts on that for sure. So they keep going. It's so difficult to do, and I don't have, like, an easy way to do it. Even crypto isn't probably I mean, it really required a lot of booms and bust to get to the level of mainstream is now. I don't know if you call it mainstream, if you even call crypto mainstream or not yet, but it just requires so much up and down. And I don't know if there's ways to get away with it, but I I I appreciate all your comments, I think it makes sense for sure. Cleen?
Cleat I actually have a question. You know, first answer got me thinking that I'm ask. It might be a really dumb question, but I don't know about it, and I want to learn. And I think, Pop, you, or Ben might know. Can crypto market can be, stable, you know, in any way, you know, considering its nature? Is it possible?
Speaker 2 I don't know if you wanna take that, Ben. You're probably more qualified than me. Like, I I like to listen to macro podcasts, but god knows I don't know anything. I mean, I know a little bit about macro, but I'd love Ben's take if he's willing to.
Ben Sure. I was thinking about it for a minute and kinda going, I don't know how to answer that. I would say it really depends on how you look at crypto. Right? Do you look at crypto as a whole, like a emerging market or a stock, or a company, you know, and in in which case, it's never gonna be stable, but it'll be growing. Right? And depending on what size and what phase and total value flowing through it and what is it. Right? Is it is it digital gold? Is it a method of exchange? Is it a currency? Or is it you know, are we selling block space and it's more like a a company the way dollar cash flows work? So I think it depends on what kind of stability are you are you talking about. Are you talking about gold?
Are you talking about The US stock market growing year over year? Are you talking about a startup company that might grow a thousand percent or it might go bust? And I think the answer is probably yes depending on which particular crypto asset we're talking about. Right? But, no, I think I don't think we will have stability so long as it's a highly speculative nonmainstream asset. And I understand it's getting more mainstream, but I still think, you know, you don't have enough institutional money in it for it to have enough stability yet. It's still a lot of us, Djens, betting on things. But I do think as it becomes more popular and more and more institutional capital comes into it, that will cause there to be more stability just by nature. So, hopefully, that's a somewhat coherent answer.
Cleat It was. And you while you were speaking, I was thinking to myself and laughing, actually, that I don't know what kind of market I was talking about. Actually, I was like I think I was thinking about, will there be a time where we see no bears? Maybe no bulls as well, like a stable market somewhere in between that flows all the way. But, I mean, your answer was pretty good. I mean, maybe not.
Speaker 3 Yeah. I'll say, like, my take on that on this question, Klitsch, I think actually aligns with what I believe in going mainstream as a general approach for NFTs in the arts, you know, perspective anyway. So imagine that, you know, like, we have we have new tools that are going to make, artists and collectors from the traditional industry interested in joining us. That will put us in a situation where it's going to be more like a business driven than, you know, like crypto assets that will flow based on speculation. So, when we have a structure that has a business behind it to sustain the movement, I think that's when we're going to be able to find the stability.
So, one of the things that I think is crucial for that to happen is removing friction from people that are willing to join the crypto industry, you know, but not feeling comfortable or, you know, like, quite confident on using crypto wallets or, you know, like, all the tools that we have that most of us have learned really hard to make sure that we could under And the, you know, techno... Technical parts of it. So, by that, I mean, you know, like, having a credit card acceptance, acceptance on, like, you know, protocol level, having a custodian wallet as an option. Option. So, of course, you know, like, when I, started with, Nifty Gateway, I didn't want to do it because I had to put a credit card and I had to use a custodian wallet. And I thought that that wasn't, right because I was already using a crypto wallet.
But, if people have the option, they say, okay. I am ready. I have my crypto wallet, and I'm gonna go in this, path. Or I'm not ready. I don't want to use a crypto wallet. So how about have a custodian wallet and credit card? So you don't have to worry about understanding how to manage, you know, your wallet. So those things are, basics that I think is going to change, the way that people deal with art digitally. The other thing is, promoting art as, you know, like, the digital assets as actual art that can be consumed in the market the same way that we consume music or movies or any of that. Because, like, I I come back to this point. I think the whole, you know, it's just JPEG. It's the same as, you know, music's just m p three, and movies are just m p fours.
And we still buy them. You know? So why not buy JPEGs? So, anyway, like, I'm big fan of having a digital display at home. I have a couple. Looking forward to having more because I have a fairly large collection. I love I love looking at my art. And I started sharing those screens on Instagram, for instance, which is where my traditional crowd lives. And I've been getting a lot of message going like, oh my god. This is so cool. Like, how do, you know, like, how do you do this and, you know, show me more. So I think we're warming up to a situation where the market's going to change. We're going to get mainstream much sooner than people are thinking, And that's one of my missions. Just going
Speaker 3 And, yes, that... That's my take.
Speaker 2 Love that. I don't wanna say, to your question, Clyde, I've been in... Like, I've been a speculator my whole life, at least my adult life, but probably my whole life because I was in the baseball cards in, like, post kindergarten, I think. So... And I think I was into, like, the financial aspects of it too, and that was another giant crash that happened. And, similarly, the market flooded with so much our... Or in this case, cards that had a similar thing. But I wanna say a couple ones that were more professional were... Was very early in kind of the the search engine optimization space. And I would say, you are always gonna have people who are more kind of speculative on the fringe in those spaces, but a lot of that has gone more mainstream. So I think industries can go more mainstream, and that can create some stability.
I don't know. The price wise, I think it's gonna be difficult. Another thing was I was involved in sports betting for a long time, did that professionally. And, you know, as it becomes,
Speaker 2 know, legalized, lots of places are more mainstream, you would just have a more professionalism to it. You're still gonna have people on the fringes who do different things, but I think it can even it out. And it's been pointed out, like, you know, we can start buying in a certain currency. So, like, we choose to use ETH. I like ETH. It's my thing. I I just... That's what I kind of... You know, that's what I really like. I like its ability to buy NFTs. I like my ability to DeFi. I like that it runs this amazing computer. But at the same time, it can... You know, we can start to price our more in USD. And the hope would be that something like USD or, you know, euros or whatever your choice of currency is would be a bit more stable. So that could be something as well.
I think it is a a good point you bring up. You know, it's tough to have stability. I do think it will take a long time. Crypto is still much more like a a startup, and as Ben said, startups can kind of, you know, crash and burn. And ours, I think, is a little more resilient than a startup, but it can also go up so that that can make it difficult. Ben?
Ben Yeah. I was thinking a little bit about mass adoptions and and, you know, sort of this this how do we get there. I thought a lot about this. And I think one of the most interesting things is gonna be it's going... The future is going to look different than we think it will look. Right? I mean, watch any movie about the future in the last fifty years. Sometimes they get a few things right, and that's impressive. But, generally, it always looks different than we think. Right? We're not flying around in jets and cars. But there are some things that we're doing, you know, that that people did imagine. And so here's a great example. If I think about how we stored music, right, some of us still might have a few vinyls around. We might have a few CDs around.
I doubt many of us have eight tracks around or cassette tapes, even m p threes. Right? I used to have huge collection. We would store our m p threes on iTunes. Now you're probably, you know, streaming them from a service, and there's a few different services. The art's still there. Right? The the the digital music is still there. The digital movies are there. But how we access them, how we own them is changing. Right? And so one of the interesting things is when we talk about massive up, and since we agree that self custodial wallets are are probably not the way my grandparents are gonna be using the blockchain. Right? And vice versa, we were having this discussion the other day, in a group chat I was in about the centralized versus decentralized nature of blockchains.
You've probably seen on Twitter a fair amount about on chain art recently, and we were having the discussion about, you know, storage is expensive on Ethereum as a layer one. And I said, well, it's supposed to be expensive by nature. You know, it's a decentralized blockchain. That decision was made a long time ago. If you want, you know, something that's cheaper from a storage standpoint to store on chain, you have that in Solana. It's faster. It's cheaper. But what you're losing is some of that decentralization. And so, you know, yes, I think blockchain will win in the long run. I have a whole thesis for why that is. It has to do partly with AR, VR, AI. There's a couple different reasons why blockchain, you know, technology will exist in the future and will need to exist, but I don't know...
As much as I love Bitcoin, Ethereum, I don't know which one will be the winner and what a winner will even look like. You know? Maybe maybe Visa's using Solana, Arts on Ethereum, and, you know, I think it's too early to to say that, but it will be interesting how it develops over the next few years.
Speaker 2 Appreciate that, Ben. If anybody wants to come up to share anything on bull market signs or bear market learnings, I welcome you to come up. I... Let's see. Ben, do you have a learning you wanna do? I could do mine, or I'd love to get yours while you're on because I know, you know, your time is limited. If you had any bear market learnings, I'm sure everybody would love to hear them.
Ben I'll give you a quick one. I wrote down a couple notes. Number one, while I do think as people make, you know, money on PFPs and DeFi and things like that, some of that money does flow into one of ones or one of ones of x, type of art. But one of the things I think people have also learned during this bear is that one of ones are relatively illiquid. It's true in the traditional art market, and it's true in the digital art market. Buy the art because you like it. A a good one of one from a good artist may very well appreciate. There's a there's a, you know, kind of the cost benefit. If it goes up, it's gonna go way up if that artist becomes famous. But a lot of them aren't gonna make it. And so, hopefully, you enjoy it and you like the art.
You're not buying it just to speculate. One of the other interesting things, I think, is not everybody's gonna be a full time artist. Right? I'm not a full time artist. I I do art. I do collecting. I do curation. Heck, I do programming. I recently put out a really sort of innovative new way to store some art on, ordinals over on Bitcoin. But, you know, none of those things are gonna pay all of my bills. I still go out every day, and I work in the business world. And I think that's okay. There's gonna be full time artists. There's gonna be nonfull time artists. But during the bull, there's this overexuberance where everybody kinda says, this is it. I'm gonna get rich. I'm never gonna have to work again. All I'm gonna have to do is my art.
And so I think a lot of people have learned that too, that the money has to come from somewhere and markets do ebb and flow. One of the interesting things I'm seeing right now, and I mentioned it earlier, is there is this strange balance back and forth between cautions and exuberance. And one of the defining things of right now is we have high gas, but I think we have relatively low exuberance. And what I mean is real world people putting their money out there, people are more careful, you know, spending their hard earned Ethereum or ETH at a 100 50 gas now than they were in the midst of the bull. That was sort of one of the top bull signals for me is people not even caring about transaction costs in the middle of, you know, the height of the bull.
And so that's a good measurement right now. I don't think we're as cautious as we were six months ago where people were scared to death to spend any ETH, but they're also not just, you know, Gatsby damned throwing money at it right now. And then the last thing is people really do build during the bear. I think, one of the things that I learned was... And I had heard it before that, you know, in the run up to DeFi summer and the run up to pass bulls, all the building didn't happen in the bull. The building... The true innovation happens during the bear, and I think I've seen that. I do think people, though, tend to overemphasize, you know, that the artists that stayed are the ones that are gonna win. That may or may not be true. People's tastes are fickle.
I certainly think there's an advantage to staying there and continuing to build. I've certainly grown following in sales and collectors during the bear, But that doesn't mean that people aren't gonna... You know, didn't have to go back and do their day job, and they're gonna come back during the bull. You know, I think it would be remiss to say they don't count or, you know, we should count them out because they had to go do something else for a while. So that's my quick takeaways.
Speaker 2 Alright, Ben. I think it's really powerful. And speaking of gas, like, just while we're having discussion, I know he's pumping a bit more on news that BlackRock filed for Ethereum ETF. So maybe, finally, Ethereum can get some of the ETF hype love. Literally today, I put in orders... Market orders for Ethereum ETF, but this is options based. Bitcoin had to live with that for a long time. And the amount that I could put in in a market order was so low because even though these have been out a month, Ethereum has no volume in these ETFs. So I love to see that even with that, BlackRock is coming along at potential... Potentially doing a spot one. The main thing... Difference is spot literally holds it. So when you have a spot ETF, it's holding the Ethereum or Bitcoin or whatever. And that's what everybody's excited about Bitcoin finally getting.
Ethereum in the last, I think, a month ago, five different companies all got approved for Ethereum ETFs, but those are option based. So they're using options contracts, not holding Ethereum in order to try to mirror Ethereum's price. So everybody wants spot. I want spot. I'm hoping my orders went through before this bump. I think they did, but, honestly, I I start to lose a sense of time. But just to mention that, it's going off topic. Okay. Once again, we're probably getting close to last call for people to come up if they wanna share anything. Appreciate you all being here. I know everybody wants to come up and speak, but wanna shout some people. Christopher Shen's here. Moonlight Sierra Bebe. Saleel. I always get... I'm always best names. RMC, Cubes, Karody, Alexander, Riri, great to see you. Emily, Andres, Care, Nato, much appreciate you.
That guy, Keanu, Jay, Mandalo Effect, Yulio, Ed, KG. David, you've been here from the beginning. Amal. So I can't get to everybody here, but Natasha, Lewinsky. Just really appreciate everybody takes the time to come up. We got a couple people who's gonna speak, so we might go a little longer. I'm super excited for that. I'm gonna talk briefly about my learnings. Mine are not that good. And, honestly, I took a ton of time to take notes beforehand on all this market stuff, and then I didn't really take good notes on, like, learning. I feel like I have a ton. So I'll start with just kinda something... Maybe I didn't learn, but I'm trying to remember all the time, is don't discount something as small if it's like an improvement. So for myself, you know, I relearned how to use Photoshop.
I'm still not good at it, but I at least kinda learned a bit. You know, I... Twenty years ago, I used to do a lot of Photoshop, but I've kind of relearned that skill. You know, I learned to use AI, you know, somewhat. I know mid journey pretty well. I've learned a bit about stable diffusion. It certainly made me more aware of, like, chat GPT. You know, I learned how to use some text based ones just like as a life skill. I think it's useful to do. So I don't wanna discount that. And if I kinda wasn't in this space, I honestly might not have been up on this, you know, trend. So I appreciate that. I say trend, but, I mean, I don't think there's any doubt that AI is gonna be a huge part of our lives.
And, you know, one of the good things is that people are gonna be looking for alternatives, and I think you also get that in people who are creating art. So I think that provides a good alternative. More broadly, I just say, like, that community and specifically this community and art makes the bear market go, like, a lot quicker and more enjoyable. And maybe it's not quicker, but it's a lot more pleasant. Like, we have an amazing community. So many people are supportive of each other. There's so much amazing art being created, and I've said it before. But, like, going through long bear markets in crypto, I checked out a lot of times because you run out of stuff to do. You can only shitpost so much. You can only, you know, you can only look at the price so long. But at least here, we continue to create art.
So shout out to all of you who create art along the way because that made this whole experience much better for me, and I'm sure for all of us. So I just wanted to say appreciate that. And then my overarching theme, which I kinda talked about in my thread before or as the bear market was starting, I think sustainable is really important. Like, yes. Could I have done more? Could I have learned more? Could I have collected more? Could I have done this or that? Absolutely. But I had to find a pace that was sustainable for me. And for me, that pace was kind of, you know, do what I do, maybe add a little bit over time, maybe do, you know, our chairs of cleat, then we, you know, start doing spaces, which I absolutely love spaces like this, and, you know, add stuff gradually and see if it works.
And now we're doing the newsletter. I'll admit the newsletter is one of the harder things for me to do every week because I'm not the best, like, long form writer, but, you know, trying to find a sustainable pace. And, you know, I don't have a day job, so the sustainable pace might have allowed me to do more. For some people, it was just, you know, being here occasionally. For some people, was I can make a good morning post, and I get, like, this hour of time a week I can work on art. You know, whatever the pace is sustainable for you, like, I salute you on that because it's hard. We all have different sustainable paces, but I really think sustainable kind of allows us to stay in the space however we choose or, you know, want to do. So just wanted to get that out there.
Moonlight, so excited to have you here. You've released so many cool pieces of late. And I know, like, we've done spaces in them before where you've spoke on your art, but would love if you have anything that you'd like to speak on on these topics.
Speaker 1 Yeah. Thanks. Hey, Pop. Hey, Khalid. Hey, everybody. This has been a really educational space for me. I don't really have much to add to, like, the technical side of, you know, the market learnings, but I do have a little... A couple of things from, like, the artist perspective of, like, what I learned. The first one being that this was, like, definitely a growing period, especially with, like, all the advancements that are coming out with, like, AI and all these, like, crazy things that are happening. And I personally, like, I don't feel like I shared a lot of my art during the bear. Like, I I mostly just tucked it away in folders kind of, like, waiting for that moment when the market does come back and I'm I'm ready to, like, you know, start sharing and stuff. And then I actually talked to Black AI.
I'm sure a lot of you know him. And he gave me some pretty interesting advice that was to not stop minting just because the market's not good and you're you're probably not gonna sell, but minting your artwork for the IP, like, the intellectual property aspect of it. And that was something that I learned in the bear was to, like, you know, keep creating and keep minting it because it... It's kind of like a trail of, you know, you had this idea and you executed this and this is yours. And even though you're not you're not looking to sell it, you're still minting minting it for the IP property of it. So that was something interesting I learned. And, you know, also just, like, filling up your archives with art and just also, like, living a little bit of life, but still staying present in the space.
Those are... I guess those are, like, the main things that I took away from this kind of... This little break time. But, yeah, in all, it was a great conversation. I'm excited to hear, like, what's going to be coming, and let's, you know, keep our hopes up. And, yeah, thanks for this awesome space today.
Speaker 2 I love them. And, like, it's great. Cleat.
Cleat I actually love that Sierra brought that up. I think that's another layer to the sustainability to sustain the energy we have. So, yes, keep creating, but maybe not running, like, after every single opportunity to, like, get ahold of anything. So it's basically, like, just keep mincing and be selective on that. I really like that you you brought that up. I think it's very important. More, I think we have more time to plan and simulate the things that can happen in the, Vault at this point. So creating, planning, and sit... Simulating could be our goal in in the bear. And when it's, yeah, in the bear, correct, I I tend to mix those two two together, so please bore me if I do. And when it's full, it's time to act and shine, I guess. Thanks, Sarah. It was a very good point.
Speaker 2 Yeah, Sarah. Those great points. And I love the idea, and it brings me back of, like, minting, you know, so you can show kind of mile... Milestones of kind of where you're at or that you act... Executed on that and the historical record. I remember, you know, clearly, like, when I met Fair in New York City last year, literally, Fair's talk was on kind of the historical nature of the blockchain and getting your art there. So that that definitely resonates with me quite a bit. I like that. Okay. Getting close to final call. Anybody up here who has anything else that they would like to add on this discussion, I welcome it. And then I think we will go to kind of final send offs with Ben, Fair, and Cleat. Cool. Well, I appreciate Moonlight you coming up. Appreciate you, Ben, coming up and speaking so much on these.
Definitely, like, some really thoughtful insights. I I messaged Clete. I'm like, Ben, Ben's like has notes for this space because I'm so grateful. He's such a thoughtful person. God, I was like, I mean, if I'm a guest, you know, maybe I'd take a few, but it's very thoughtful. Your kindred experience with Cleat who takes extensive notes. I really appreciate you, Ben. You bring such great insight to these things. I'd love to hear anything that you're working on or have coming up. I'm pretty sure you have an a b c or an ordinal drop this week. I would love to hear about that.
Ben Sure. So thank you again for having me. This is this is really a fun space. I'm sad I don't get time to do it a lot of times because I'm in the middle of the work today, but I'm glad I could take a little time out today to talk with y'all. I do have my third on chain piece. I was supposed to be going live right this second. I'm gonna hold off a little bit with Gas So Crazy and kinda see what Gas does. I'll make an announcement. It was my largest on chain piece yet, 44 kilobytes, vector file. The cool thing is so I meant it at seven y, and it cost about round numbers point o eight e. If I were to meant that now, I mean, it would be probably over 1 eeth. So but, yes, I do have a release.
I'm kind of excited about that. I've always got new things in the works. Got a few different projects they'll be releasing later in the month as we get towards, my birthday. I've got a couple surprises. But all in all, just happy to be here and chat about, where we're all at. I will say my one takeaway is this bear has been much more fun than the last bear. I remember going through seventeen, 18, 100% pop, it was it was there was just less to do. Right? There were less things to do on Ethereum, and the few things that there were there to do all revolved around decentralized finance, and there's only so much you can talk about. Hey. The price isn't moving. Nothing's happening. We're all down 90%. So, yes, the art aspect and the functionality aspect has made this much more fun. You know?
It the art might be selling for $10 instead of a 100, but it's still going out there, and we can still look at it, talk about it, buy it. And that's that's been a lot more fun. And it's a lot easier to commiserate with somebody instead of just saying, hey. Did you see that new financial derivative that, we can bet on and not make any money? You know? It's hard to have a lot of really fun discussions about that. But to say, hey. Look at this new piece of art I'm making, or look at this cool new functionality that I've discovered, with, you know, Onchain or over on Bitcoin or, you know, there's this new cool dynamic NFT, that has made it much easier to get through this bear. So that's it. Thank you again for having me, and, hopefully, we'll do this again soon.
Speaker 2 Love that, Ben. And Ben knows so much about so many things, but I will say, and maybe with this you know, once gas goes down, it'll become but I know a lot of people are thinking about doing on chain pieces. I've seen more pop off. Obviously, I love Ollie who's just done quite a bit of most of his pieces have been on chain, but I'm seeing more people do it. I'm seeing more questions. I think last week, might have had mentioned, Ben, not that he needed to answer, but just, like, people should follow him if you're interested in on on chain because as you heard, like, he knows the details of it, and he knows so much about it. So if you're interested in on chain work at all, meaning, like, literally, the bytes on in the chain, you know, on the network are, like that's what you that's what is the actual art.
So, like, Punk said, think, are on chain. There's lots of It's on chain. But definitely follow Ben for that. But, also, as you've heard today, there are so many other things that Ben speaks to, so I really appreciate it. Another person, very much appreciate. It's fair. I need to keep up better with what you're doing. I had fallen off a little bit, which is a good reminder. But so I'm not gonna intro you heavily far. You talked about anything you want, but I don't know if you're gonna be in Miami. I'm not, but I am kind of excited about just by proxy. Our Bazel to see, like, how that goes. But love to hear what you're talking about and doing.
Speaker 3 Hey, Bob. Well, I'm not going to be in Miami. I moved here. So I will I will attend ArcBazel just, you know, because I'm a local now, so I have to be there. But anyway and I just got notified that I I have been approved as a speaker at NFT NYC again. So it would be my third year speaking. So they haven't told me yet if I have a a solo slot again or if I'm going to be on a panel. So once I have more details, I'll share. But we'd love to meet up again in New York. It was amazing meeting you last year. This year, so, I guess. And, yes, I've been doing a lot of stuff. One of the things, I wanted to say is, what we are actually doing together is we are both juries at the Quantum, call for art right now.
So I think that on my profile for today, if anyone's interested in joining, Pop actually put some very thorough explanation on his newsletter on how to, apply for this, open call. So I would not answer questions on that because I didn't quite understand all the requirements, but I am a jury nonetheless. The other thing that, I am doing, I'm onboarding people on Vitrivio in December. I have a goal of, 2,500 artists as my Genesys artists on Vitrivio, and I have some pretty fun benefits for everyone that is going to be joining me on that. I'll be sharing more, regarding that matter, in the coming weeks because I'm still putting together the proper announcement. But if anyone's interested, make sure, you know, like, check check the information on my profile for the links for Vitruvio. I really believe in what we're building.
We have raised, over 500,000 by now with the community of already investors that have been building this blockchain for a couple of years already, and we're moving into the corporate, investors, right now. So it should be very good and moving towards the sustainability of arts in the community, which is always has always been my goal to support artists, creators of all levels here. So it is a pleasure to be able to actually offer a blockchain for that. Other than that, I never share my art, So I fail big time as an artist. People ask where to find my art, and I don't think you can even find all my links. So my apologies for that. I am an artist. I have art available for purchase, but you have to dig really hard to find them. Anyway, always great to be here.
It's a pleasure to, host, cohost with you guys, on a weekly basis. Always a fun week. So thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 Oh, that's fair. And I did I did know you're in Miami. I didn't at least knew that much. I just didn't know if you're attending Basel, which I called Basil last time, which is pretty much on point for me because I always get words wrong. Like, sometimes I said Cleet's like sometimes she gets word wrong. As in, you know, a native English speaker, I substitute words constantly wrong and say them. Cleet's like much better pronunciation than me. I totally agree. There I don't I'm not even gonna name it because I don't have it at the top of my head. It's Quantum. You can see it on Fare's pin tweet. It's a six eath collecting pool. It's about a god from Bali, I think, or Malaysia is kind of the inspiration. Bunch of people judging, including Fair and myself. I think it ends end of November, but it's a good opportunity.
It does require you mint something, which now you probably don't want to mint on Ethereum. In order to be able to do it, you sign up on join, but there's an email option that I've told works. And all you have to do is email. So it has a little bit more barrier than some things to do, but also I think, you know, sixtieth is nothing to seize that in terms of, you know, actually collecting versus just displaying. So definitely check that out. Clay, excited to hear what you are working on. Obviously, we're doing lots of stuff together. I know you're doing some art too. You might not be able to talk about it, but love to hear anything you wanna talk about.
Cleat To be honest, the, like, the busiest thing I'm working on is my houseplants at this point. I'm so deep into that. Like, I'm I'm growing a full garden in my living room, so it it is really fun. Fer, congrats on that NFT MIC speaker, position. I think I will be sliding into your DMs for a selfie before my piece because you're the first one that I know that personally is going to be there. So I'll be I'll be I'll be your DMs. And I think this open call is super nice. I I think I will be looking out for the pieces that will be sent there because I've seen the jury. They're, like, super good names, and I don't think anybody will go there with their lousy work. So I'm quite excited for you guys. You'll get to judge a bunch of really good words.
And, by the way, I really like that when Ben said despair is much fun. I thought it was me because in my mind, if you're not having fun while doing something, you're totally doing it wrong. And I'm just glad to hear that I'm not the, like, the only person to having fun while the world is on fire. So thank you so much, Ben and Sierra, for your contributions. It was a wonderful conversation. Absolutely enjoyed it. Thanks so much, Paul, for bringing this topic for these spaces forward because I think everyone of you enjoyed it and got something that you make it make use of. Other than that, the forty sixth yes. It is forty sixth. Right? It is. Spotlight thread is on the pin panel. Please do check that before you go. We had wonderful art share of verbs of imagination on last Tuesday.
And everybody take care, and see you all soon.
Speaker 2 Love that, Clay. I don't have a time. We're gonna have a spaces next week. We'll probably be off we'll definitely be off for US Thanksgiving. But then, you know, we're gonna be back in December again. So, you know, we'll continue on. This has been a great one. Really appreciate Moonlight and Ben and Fair and Cleat and all of you for being here. Like I said, this whole space, it just makes it so much more sustainable and interesting and fun as Cleat said. I will say we got a lot of people started tweeting out the newsletter there, which is very nice. It actually led to a lot of sign ups. I appreciate all those people who retweet or tweeted. MyPen is a newsletter. It's called pop five. Clete and I do it. It's usually five things that are either open calls or events.
Also, if just I or Clete have something we wanna say, which is kinda frequent, I'll just write that too. So there's stuff beyond that as well, kind of commentary on the market. And we've started to add the the ArtShare thread the arts arts spotlight thread as well, which I love seeing the art in more big screen. I read the emails on my computer, and so it's awesome to just, like, see the art super large whereas I have to just see it on my phone. So that's kinda fine. We put those at the end. So if you're event if you're interested, I think you go to my pen, and you have to go a couple of tweets down, or you can go to the link tree, and you can subscribe. No obligation. Think I we're only, like, seven in. We'll keep trying and make see if it's sustainable or not.
And once again, thank you all very much. Really appreciate you, and we'll talk to you all next week. Have a good one.