Blockchain Layers: L2 vs L1
Charlie Welcome to the Builders Talk at Web three Community Podcast. We're gonna be having these spaces every Monday, every week. I'm gonna have you gonna be talking about every different topic web through related. You're also gonna be able to find us on Spotify starting now. So with further without further ado, this is Charlie, one of your hosts, Fabio and Flavio as well. Just to introduce myself real quick, I'm a photographer for the last twelve years. Been doing aerial photography for the last nine. I've been loving it. Joined Web three almost for three years ago, and I've been loving the experience so far, learning new things. And this is not going to be an exception. So super, super glad that we got our guest today. We got Gevelia, and we got the Ben Meadows.
So I'm actually looking forward to this topic, talking about l ones versus l twos and what should we understand about this when when it comes down to these two layers. Now with that being said, I definitely wanna introduce you to Fabio real quick.
Fabio GM. GM, guys. Great to be here again. Let me introduce myself also shortly. It's almost the same like Charlie said. I'm also twelve years into photography, just not into aerial photography because I crashed all my drones. I'm not a good flyer. But and, hey, guys, yesterday, I had my three years anniversary in NFT. Yesterday, exactly three years ago, I minted my first piece on, I I wanna say, air, on foundation. So, yeah, it's three years here. So cool to still be here, still the same airy fucking day. And I'm excited for this chat today because, you know, there's much going on with the new layer two, especially base and all that stuff. So, yeah, let's go to the next guy. GM, Flavio, do you need to say something about yourself too? You're the boss. You're the man. You're the maker. You're the machine.
Speaker 1 Thanks, Fabio. Thanks, Charlie. Yes. Well, I'm Fabio, and, I've been in this space, for a while now. Entered the crypto space in the twenty twenty fifteen, so a long time ago. And I'm one of the founders of the Builders Now, and I have, like, Fabio and Charlie, a big passion for photography. I'm really glad, to cross this space, with Fabio and Charlie here and to have, those, two great us today that we will, give us some more insights about layer one, layer two, what does it mean, how we can navigate into web three. So, yeah, without further ado, should we start the interview, Fabio?
Fabio We definitely should. We we need to introduce, like, the the our guests a bit better because, you know, they are both amazing guys, amazing part of this space, and we definitely need to hear more about them. So, Elia, do you wanna start introducing yourself a bit?
Speaker 2 Let's go. Let's go, Fabio. Thanks for having me, guys. GM, everyone. I am Elia, but my artist name is Jevelia, as you may know. I'm a digital artist for fourteen years and just like Fabio, I am about to approach my three years anniversary in the space, in just one month. So, yeah, not there yet, but almost there. And, also, on the other hand, I am one of the cofounders of the Builders DAO. So I'm really happy to be here. And, again, thanks for having me. I I hope I can share something from, you know, from their from their artist standpoint about these layers. So thanks again.
Fabio Now we are all quiet. You know, the biggest question is who will, manage the first part. So in the spaces which I have normally with Charlie, it was me for the first part and Charlie for the mostly for the second part, but that's a bit new to me. And Charlie is the man here. So, should I introduce Ben? Or
Charlie Yes. Yes. Please go ahead, Fabio. Yeah. We will definitely wanna introduce wanna introduce Diwali and also Ben, and then we that, we actually start.
Fabio Great. So, yeah, Ben, then it's your turn to introduce yourself a bit. GM.
Ben Good morning. And it's it's actually good morning here. It's only 7AM where I'm at, so I've just had a couple coffees and, or a couple espressos and trying to wake up. So, I am the Ben Meadows, Ben Meadows in real life. I have been making art for a couple decades, taking photographs. I remember editing them, you know, twenty plus years ago when the, the software and the tools weren't quite as nice as they are, nowadays. And I also would consider myself sort of a technologist in the sense that I've been playing around with blockchain technology since maybe 2011, I think, is about the furthest back I can find records. So I've been, you know, messing around with Bitcoin and Litecoin and Ethereum and lots of other things over the years.
I've gotten involved and done some interesting technical things on different blockchains over the years, you know, primarily with on chain artwork and some contract work on Ethereum and Bitcoin specifically. And then in the business world, I've, I've worked as an executive for a number of years, consultant sales. And I and I always say, you know, it took a decade before all those things could sort of come together, and you could actually put your art on the blockchain, and there's actually organizations and businesses doing business on the blockchain. So I I really feel like we're in a fun time now. And I'm excited about our discussion today about sort of blockchain scaling solutions, layer one, layer two. What does that mean for artists, or just in general for all of us in the blockchain ecosystem? So looking forward to it.
Charlie So, Ben, with that being said, welcome. So glad that you're here on Solgivalia. But with that, I just wanna ask you this, Ben. What is the layer one, and what is the layer two?
Ben Man, start off right off the bat. So, ultimately, when we're talking about layer ones and layer twos, we're talking about blockchain scaling solutions. And and we're talking about a way to get more you know, the why do you need a layer two, I guess, is the first quest. Right? And and so you you gotta step back a a level and talk about blockchain system design. Right? There there are different ways of designing blockchains, bigger blocks, smaller blocks, more centralized, more decentralized. And as you make those decisions about what a blockchain does, and this is known as the blockchain scalability problem, I was actually trying to put together a post, you know, with some supplemental information on on blockchain design, different layers, before this. But as I said, I'm I'm about half awake, so I'll send it out after this. I've got some good articles and things.
But there's this, problem, you know, known as the blockchain scalability problem or or maybe more commonly known as the blockchain trilemma, and it's a balancing act between security, decentralization, and scalability. And different blockchains approach this differently. So if we look at Solana, it's a more monolithic, blockchain design. And so, you know, they've they've given up some decentralization, for some of that scalability and security. But, you know, to run a Solana node is very different than running an Ethereum node or a bit node. So there's this scalability problem, this trilemma. And Ethereum has decided that, you know, we wanna be more decentralized. But because of that decentralization, we saw it you know, what what did I get up to back in the last run? 600 at one point. Essentially, you can get too many transactions and overload this decentralized network. And so you have to scale that network in some way.
And a and a layer two, a layer three, these are just ways to scale the network. You're you're moving a lot of the traffic off of the main network, and then you are settling, you know, a more compressed version or a smaller version onto the net main network. That's what we just saw with the Denkun net upgrade had to do with blobs and scaling in the way it settles to the layer one. But, essentially, a layer two is simply another network. You know, in this case, it follows along with the EVM, and and it meets all the standards that settles down to the layer one, and there's different ways of doing that. I'll I'll stay out of the weeds, optimistic roll ups and z k proofs. And but a layer two is simply, essentially another Ethereum network that settles to the main net, but moves a lot of the traffic off of the main net.
Charlie Awesome. It just makes a whole lot of sense the way you explain it because it feels like main net Ethereum feels like a big highway. And through, I will say, big transactions or events when it comes down to the bull run, etcetera, those become very congested, and there's not much to move. And when it moves, you gotta pay a huge fee when it comes down to movement and transactions. Now with l twos, which is a different highway that which is within Ethereum, that you can actually move there as well, and that actually is going to ease the pain when it comes down to congestion on layer one. This is what I understood when you were actually speaking about this, when it comes down to, like, easing the pain, when it comes down to, gas fees, transaction fees, and things like that that is actually affecting a lot of us.
And and that's the main concern in my opinion. Like, usually, when I first started, I have to make live decisions when it comes down to minting and listing work. And I was like, man, I have to pay this much to actually put it on the chain. And then I said to myself, like, this is not going to happen again. I'm not going to make those live decisions to mend my work. And then that's when l twos came out came about, and I started seeing the huge difference with between the l twos and l ones when it comes down to, transaction fees and things like that, where now it's like pennies compared to the hundreds of dollars that we were paying for transaction fees. And that was something that was actually making us artists, like, diving into different blockchains because we didn't want to go through that pain when it comes down to fees and things that were happening in layer one.
So now that you explained this, it makes a whole lot of sense, when it comes down to, why to use l twos and why they're beneficial as well. But I'm pretty sure Fabio and Flavio got all the questions when it comes down to what are we talking today when it comes down to l ones and l twos. Fabio, please go ahead.
Fabio I would say the biggest question is for someone who wants to try, like, for example, the base layer two. So what are the first steps someone need to do to mint or also buy something on a layer two, like base? Leon, do do you have a a good explanation for that?
Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah. I'm not, you know, as technical as Ben, so you cannot expect that level of, you know, technicality. But I I can I can give you a simple answer? In order to be ready to collect something on a layer two network like base, for example, let's stick to base because, you know, is that's the place where the builders are building actually. The simplest way to do it is just to have some Ethereum on your wallet. Okay? Just remember that your wallet address, it's not changing. Either you are operating on a layer one or, the layer two. So it's the same, wallet address, and you can, operate through the same wallet address. You can just bridge some Ethereum from layer one to layer two, using one of the many, actually, services providing this, you know, bridging opportunity.
One of the I mean, I the I the the the one I just used, because I I didn't, you know, try every every single provider out there, it's Orbiter Finance. So if you just connect your wallet there, you can very quickly bridge some Ethereum from layer one to layer two, and then you are ready to go. You can start collecting and operating on the base network.
Fabio Think that that's something really important you said. We need to bridge that first because Ethereum it's still Ethereum on base, but it's Bridged to this layer two. This is something which maybe many not really understand because it's just still the same, like, money, but it's on another layer. So the bridging process is really important.
Speaker 2 Yes. Yes. It's like that, but, it's not impossible for, an exchange, a crypto exchange, to, offer you the an an even easier solution, which is to send directly the Ethereum on the base network, for example. I'm not sure about it because I'm not a Coinbase user, but I think and maybe Ben can second this if if it's right. Through Coinbase, you can actually send Ethereum directly on the base network. So there is no need to pay the gas fee on layer one to bridge. So is it is it right, Ben?
Ben Yeah. That's correct. So one of one of the I would say one of the biggest downsides right now of layer twos is, you know, there's this friction that exists. They solve a lot of issues, cheap gas, fast transactions, security. It's a copy of the layer one model, main net. But it's this friction, in getting liquidity to these chains that's currently, you know, an issue. And there's some ideas around fixing that, you know, some of this cross chain, you know, composability and things that that are gonna occur down the road that will allow settlement to happen faster, you know, across these chains. And there's a whole lot that has to be done, and, you know, there's things that Polygon's working on like the ag layer, and, you know, there's some issues with ZK proof roll ups versus optimistic roll ups actually talking with each other, and and, Justin Drake's done a couple good articles and talks about this recently.
But there is this friction right now. If I want to buy something or mint something on base or optimism or arbitrum, you know, I have to get my funds into those layer twos. And those layer twos all use Ethereum as their, native coin, as their gas, but you have to bridge over there. So for base, probably the cheapest way to bridge to Base is through Coinbase if you're a Coinbase user. It's essentially free. It's maybe a penny for a transaction. So it's essentially free, and it's it I think Coinbase actually does, the transaction free when you transfer your ETH straight to Base, and partly that's because Base is, you know, sort of technically, you know, not Coinbase, but it's it's Coinbase. You can also I'd say number two is probably to use the official base bridge at base.org. I think it's bridge.base.org.
But it's very, very cheap from Mainnet onto base. The issue is if you want your money to come back out, I think it's a seven day waiting period from a layer two back onto the layer one that has to do with optimistic roll ups and fraud proofs, and there's this waiting period to make sure, everything settles properly before you can take your money back out, and that you actually should be owed your money back. Then there are other, services. And we had mentioned, Orbiter, Orbiter dot Finance. I've used them a number of times. They're relatively well regarded. Hop.exchange is another good one. You know? And these essentially are are multisig, a m m, you know, market maker exchanges that they're bridges. You know? They they take your funds, and they match it, and you pay a slight fee, but you can also get your money back from the layer two to the layer one almost instantly using those.
So I would say that's kinda one of the biggest problems with these layer twos right now is that friction of if I wanna go mint something on Zuora or Base or Optimism or Arbitrum, I have to have my heap on each one of those layer twos, and it's not, you know, available unless I bridge it in and out of these other chains.
Fabio Yeah. Go ahead, Fabio. I want to ask, how you guys think about the bridge option which, for example, MetaMask offers, like, in the MetaMask, app in in your browser? Is is that not on the is it cheaper or more expensive than if you do that directly on one of those platforms?
Ben Ben? I I do not know the answer because I don't use MetaMask. I know I'm I'm kind of a weird weird guy, but, yeah, I I don't know the answer to that. I am sure it is using one of those as an underlying, technology, and it's probably charging you a very, you know, very low fee. But, yeah, I just I don't use it, so I don't know.
Charlie So let me ask you this, Ben, because actually actually, I got two questions for you. The first question is you actually mentioned optimism and Arbitrum. Out of the top of your head, how many layer twos are out there, to your knowledge?
Ben Yeah. So I think, you know, one of the things that's interesting is is, you know, a lot of these use different sort of technologies. Right? I talked about optimistic roll ups, you know, which is Arbitrum and OP Mainnet. There's ZK roll ups. There's Validium roll ups like Immutable. So there is less technology than there are layer twos. You know, you've got for instance, a lot of layer twos fall under the Optimism super chain now. Base is a member. Blast uses essentially a fork of Optimism's code. Think Mantle is a is an optimistic roll up. Then then you have, you know, ZK roll ups. We're talking about, Polygon is moving to that, and they've got a, you know, an entire network they're working on. I think S'well's layer two is running on Polygon's CDK. Right now, there's about so if you go to l2beat.com, which when I post later, it'll talk about that.
They sort of they sort of review, roll up layer twos for, what stage they're in, how how decentralized are they. Because a lot of layer twos right now are very centralized. Whole different issue, but they're very centralized, and they're moving to a more decentralized model. But right now, they have 48, different significant layer twos listed on l2beat.com. You know, everything from, let's see. What is this? Their TVL, you know, everything from, say, 16,000,000,000 in arbitrum, 5,000,000,000 in base, all the way down to fuel version one, which has a TVL of 800. So, there are a lot, and there will be a lot more as, there's more interoperability as some of these bridging and liquidity issues get solved. I think you will see more and more and more and more layer twos. And then we could even talk about there will be layer threes.
You know, right now, we're talking about layer twos. The DGN network is a layer three. That's gonna be something you're going to see, is layer threes.
Charlie Yeah. I was very curious about that. 48 of them right now as we speak, and that's because probably the issues haven't been solved. And once that is actually said and done, there are going to be a lot more. Now with that said, why is that? Why is it that there's so many l twos out there? Are they competing with each other? Who's going to take the the the bigger piece of the cake? Like, what is the actual reason why there are so many l twos? Are they different? Are they providing different things or or different solutions for especially us artists? Like, which one in your opinion, it is the best one so far when it comes down to artist?
Ben So so they are. I'll talk a little bit about the technology, and then I'll probably let Aliyah talk from the artist standpoint a little bit more, see what his opinion is or even Flavia's. So from a technology standpoint, there are some differences. There there's also a difference between sort of a generalist universal chain, you know, Arbitrum, OP, BASE. These are these are more general, layer twos. And then you have, more sort of app chains. You know, I think Uniswap's working on one that's, you know, gonna be specifically focused on DeFi and exchanges. I mentioned Swell's layer two that's coming up down the road. That's more focused on restaking and staking, and that'd be more of an app chain. It's a specific chain. Now there's this thesis that says, you know, that layer two starts out maybe as an app chain.
We want a specific app chain to do this thing, and then, you know, somebody else says, wow. That chain's really great. They've got a lot of liquidity locked in there. We would like it to be able to do this. And, essentially, app chains turn into general purpose chains and then spawn off more app chains. And so there is this dilemma where and we've seen it with the base where fees went up. When base had a lot of usage, fees went up. And instead of being a penny, they were 50¢ to do a transaction now. Because Base is new and relatively centralized, it's not Ethereum, it's not slow moving, they were able to, change their transaction times and their their block size very quickly, and they they were able to fix that within a week or two.
And so they can scale up much faster, you know, than the layer one can, and they can make changes. And so I think you will see, a few different reasons for lots of different layer twos. There will be, some of them will be opinionated. You know? I mean, if you look at at, Blast, for instance, Pac Man has, built in some native, yield into he's taken the OP, main net code, forked it, and he's given some native yield from, staking back into sort of the base layer of the, layer two. And so, yes, you'll see opinionated reasons for layer twos. You will see, I think you'll see a lot of reasons. I I would say from an art standpoint, there is not currently sort of an art layer two that exists.
And so from my opinion in terms of where where you want the eyes, where you want the things aren't you know, you can't just send funds back and forth yet. I would stick to the bigger, more universal chains because that's where the liquidity is. That's where the eyes are. That's where the tooling is. Perfect.
Charlie I mean, out of the 48, focus on the top three, let's say that, and, and start building from there. There are going to be a lot of things that are going to be happening, transpiring for the next couple days, weeks, months, but that's probably going to be the safe bet. With that said, Javelia, I definitely wanna ask you this question when it comes down to artists. To your in your opinion or your experience, what is the best l two when it comes down to art, as far as, like, support, as far as, like, how easy it is to navigate the actual layer two on on many other things.
Speaker 2 Okay. Thanks for the question, Charlie. Well, a quick step back maybe. I think the main reason Flavio asked me to participate in this space today is that I'm actually an unusual early adopter of a layer two technology when it comes to, you know, tying the technology to the art. And it actually happened in 2022. Back then, I was, you know, following some specific subreddit, and the focus was on the, you know, the GameStop stock frenzy back in 2021, and there were rumors about GameStop being involved with one of these layer two technology networks. Sorry. And the network is the loop ring, is actually not very known to the public, but they use this loop ring technology to build a beta sort of marketplace. Okay? And they launched this beta marketplace in back in 2022. And I was a very early supplier, so I was onboarded very quickly.
And I have the the lack of testing, you know, this layer two functionality, like selling several editions of the main artwork beforehand when, for example, this the $11.55 contract was not so common on layer one. It was back then, it was already a thing on this layer two, and it was pretty easy to sell, and the community was very, very, you know, fond of of art, was very supporting. I had the luck to sell out completely my collection there for, like, nice amount of Ethereum, actually. But, actually, it was a very, very, you know,
Speaker 2 let's say closed world, because it never established any connection with the towards the the regular art market, web three art market, is like there is
Fabio there was an invisible barrier
Speaker 2 between these two these two markets somehow, like the the one we are building on top right now as the as the builders, and that special layer to art world. So my first experience was great in terms of sales, for for sure. But it wasn't that great in terms of, you know, finding the right collectors or also in terms of bridging my lair one collectors there. Because I repeat, there was like an invisible barrier, and I never got why, but it was there. Okay? Maybe for technical reason. I don't know. I don't know. Now that this base, you know, euphoria is popping out, I can I can definitely state that, in my opinion, this is the right place to be? I'm I'm just seconding what Ben already state. We just need to stick oh, this is my suggestion.
We just need to stick to the most used networks because, you know, it's easier when you see x x copy dropping an additional special edition basically for free on base. It's easier to to use that chain because, you know, it's like the real OG artist giving you the right direction to follow. So stick to the to the main trend. It's my it's my suggestion. So, yeah, to answer your question, I think right now, for what I see, for what I experience right now, this base network is the best one layer two solution
Speaker 2 operate as a as an artist.
Charlie Man, you are one of the OGs then. 2022. I wasn't even thinking about layer twos even back in 2022. I didn't think it even exist.
Fabio You were already there in the rabbit hole.
Charlie And then you're like, it feels weird because I know how you feel about this because I actually had the same experience in Solana where I was actually telling people like, hey. We need to join Solana, and people were looking at me all crazy like, Solana, you crazy as hell. We own Ethereum. Probably you were probably having the same feelings where it comes down to layer twos. Like, hey. Layer twos. I'm like, yo. I don't wanna hear anything about these rocket science. I'm good on l one right now. I still gotta pay a little bit of gas, but it is what it is. So so you probably back then, were like, man, come in, man. It's gonna be the future. It's going to take off, and here we are, 2024, talking about l twos. That is crazy.
You said something very important when it comes down to what is actually taking place on the l twos, it comes down to the freements and things like that, which I actually started, taking notice. I was paying attention to this where many artists are actually listing their work either for free or for a very small amount, which to me is kind of crazy to think because it's a layer two Ethereum, which is the same price as Ethereum. But I'm trying to figure it out what is the reason the reasoning behind that where it comes down to the lower pricing and not actually going for the one on ones with the same price of layer ones, the layer one main nets. So is there an explanation to this, Javelia, this is actually happening because of the culture?
Speaker 2 I I think there is no technical answer, for this. Nothing can explain this, from a technical standpoint in my opinion. It's just a cultural, maybe, you know, bias. Something I don't know. To to to put it down as a metaphor, maybe, I will say that and this is the same for me. I'm I'm, you know, falling under this this kind of bias as well. To me, the layer one chain is like a a vault chain. Okay? A vault network. The main net is the vault. While the layer two is the operational network, so it's the place where you can, you know, experiment with the gamificated drops or multiple additions drops. I don't know. It's it's a matter of perception, maybe. A $10.01 as an additional one on the layer one Ethereum is perceived by many collectors as well as more valuable. Okay?
And this is probably why the most exclusive marketplaces are not yet considering layer two solutions like we see Foundation has recently implemented, you know, the the base network, and it totally makes sense. But there is no plan, actually, for for what I for what I know, there is no plan for SuperRare to implement this kind of technology.
Charlie And does it make sense, Charlie? Yeah. It does make a whole lot of sense. I thought was gonna be my next question because we noticed that foundation, came with the initiative of actually applying layer twos into their actual marketplace, which, in my opinion, is a freaking game changer. But, more of that later. Let me hear from Flavio real quick.
Speaker 1 Oh, thanks, Chad. No. I was just wondering, and I wanted to ask Ben the same question. I mean, I wanted to know if there is something that really makes a difference in terms of, for example, pricing, from a layer one and a layer two is something technical that we need to be aware, which explain the difference in price when it comes to art, for example.
Ben Yeah. So I do think so I yeah. A couple things. So from a technical standpoint, there's a couple things at play. You know, if we're talking about on chain art on layer twos, that's a whole different animal. And and later when I post a a long thread about it, I'll include some chain let's, comments about, you know, why on chain art on a layer two is a little bit different. In terms of long term, the gold standard is still gonna be the layer one. Because, you know, theoretically, a layer two could disappear long term. Right? If we're talking about permanence, on chain is a different thing. It is it is on chain, but, you know, Arweave Arweave is a chain also. So, you know, if you're talking about permanence and what's gonna be around the longest, I think there's still a premium on Ethereum layer one.
At the same time, if we're not talking about on chain art, if we're just talking about, you know, a photograph that we uploaded to IPFS or Arweave, in a lot of ways, that's that's the same on base or optimism or l one. These are tokens, they're pointers, and they're for pointing to an image on either Rweave, which is in and of itself another blockchain or IPFS, which is more like a, you know, torrent system. So there's that aspect of it. But I think so there is a technological aspect of it, but it's not that different. I mean, I don't think anybody thinks base is gonna be gone or optimism or arbitrum. I would say, you know, for me, I personally try and stick to Optimism, Arbitrum, base, or Zohra. I feel like they've got sort of the best staying power at least right now, you know, if we're guessing.
I think you've seen a lot of memes on base because of Forecaster. There's a there's a close integration there, same with Zora. And so I think that's given a lot of, hype to layer twos right now. Forecaster itself runs on an o p stack fork. I run a hub or a node for that network right now. And I think, you know, you you go where the artists are. OP gave a big incentive to artists. Arbitrum currently is giving incentives to artists. FACE is obviously doing some really cool things, teaming up with some artists. And then I also think so from a price standpoint, why are mints cheaper on l twos right now? I think there's a few things. I think partly, it's a cultural thing. It's fun. It's experimental. It's sort of punk, you know, to go out and release some free art and do some burns again.
And part of that's because gas is so low, you can do that. You can experiment again. You know, we lost some of the sort of, open edition meta that we had a year or two ago when gas fees went way up. And, you know, I gave a free edition out, and it costs $10 in gas, and then it's gonna cost another $10 to burn it. That's not fun anymore. You know? We're spending real money. So I think the gas versus the price is something you gotta look at. When it costs a penny to mint, you can charge $5 for a piece, and you can get 200 mints at $5. If you were to do that on Ethereum, would get two mints when gas is 10 or $20. I did it myself. I I released a 70 piece collection for free on base a couple months ago or so.
I I pinned it at the bottom of the space here, and it was really fun. It minted out in under twenty four hours. I just did it for fun. And and, you know, that was something that I hadn't done on layer one. And I also think there's a little different, you know, from an artist standpoint there. To release a free fund man on base is a little different than if I'm putting something on layer one Ethereum and you know? It's not that there's a different level or standard, but there's a different way of looking at it and, and what you're doing. It's a little less fun and experimental. So I think some of that all plays into it.
Charlie Man, so many questions, man. Look. I know Fabio wants wants to jump in as well, but, I got I got a question before that, before I jump with Fabio as well. But you mentioned something very important, and I definitely didn't wanna dismiss that. You actually mentioned that FarCaster is on their OP, yet there are functions from base, for example, layer threes like dGen, that are using Forecaster, which is an OP. So I basically they're, like, intermixing with each other with the layer twos. Is that correct, or am I actually making this up?
Ben No. No. That's correct. So dGen so if you look at the dGen layer three network, it is a arbitrum fork that settles to an optimism fork, which is base, which is a member of the optimism super chain, which settles to Ethereum layer one.
Ben yes, there is each each layer, as long as it's standard compliant, EVM compliant, and the way it uses blob space and settles, yeah, you can have a mix of different sort of layer two architectures, settling and interacting with each other. That is that is correct.
Charlie That is absolutely game changing right there because you can have many, many layers, when it comes down to layer twos because you actually mentioned it was, 48 as as to date. And now they can if they are also complying with each other, they can actually intermix and they can actually benefit from each other when it comes down to what protocols they're going to be bringing to those platforms. For example, people are using Forecaster a whole lot because of that layer three option. Now people are like, oh, wow. I can actually receive tips. You can actually get paid for posting, etcetera. Things are happening right now. Right? But that wasn't possible because that's not even part of Farcaster, the dGen layer three, which is actually part of base, which is a whole different thing. Right?
So that actually got to me when you said that because it may it just I couldn't put one on one together where as if it is only one layer two when it comes down to Arbitrum, UP or Base, whatever, that is only going to be within that range. There's not going to be beyond that. So I'm actually glad that you were able to clarify that when it comes down to how they can actually work with each other and being separate at the same time. So please, Fabio, go ahead.
Fabio Man, that's crazy. That sounds like inception, like in the movie inception. You know? One layer, the next layer, another layer. Crazy. So but what if you wanna bridge an NFT from layer two to layer one? Is that possible, or is it only with with with coins like Ethereum possible?
Ben Ben? I'm I'm going to punt on that one. Yes. It is it is possible, but I don't know that it would bridge exactly the same way you're thinking it would. You would still need you know, a smart contract would have to be written on the layer one, and you you can't just send the ERC $7.21 back and forth. And and, so, yes, in a in a sense, it would be possible. You could, but it wouldn't really work the same way as an ERC 20 that that those contracts already exist on those different layers, if that makes sense.
Fabio write a special smart contract for layer one Ethereum, and then you can, for example, send your layer two or layer three, NFT to this smart contract on layer one, and you have it in the main chain. Or did I understand something wrong?
Ben Yeah. It would be more like a a teleburn with, you know, Bitcoin or something. You you essentially would would be burning it on a layer two and then recreating it on a layer one. It it it's theoretically you know, you could do it. I don't know that there'd be a whole lot of reasons to do it. I mean, like I said, you have to remember if the image is stored on RWE for IPFS, all you're really moving is the token, and the only reason to move the the token, the pointer, you know, saying this person owns, this image, would be if, for instance, you're worried that, you know, the layer two was gonna disappear tomorrow. You know? Coinbase goes out of business. Nobody's supporting the base network, and you're worried although at that point, wait till the network's gone and then simply, you know, recreate that token on the layer one and and give that person ownership.
Or, anyway, I I think, technologically, I can think of ways you could do it, but I have less reasons that I could think of that you would wanna do it.
Fabio But that that was exactly the reason why I asked it. For for example, if in five, six, seven years, like, the base layer is disappearing and people wanna, like, save their pieces, if there will be, like, an option to just send it to the main net. That's like, you know, you it's just like like you feel safer with that to to just just to know, whenever I want, I can just bring it to the main net. But, yeah, it's not it's not possible. Elia, do you want to do add something to that?
Speaker 2 Yeah. Just a few words. I remember that back in 2022 when I was using that marketplace I mentioned before, this bridging NFTs be between the layer one and layer two was actually possible, but I don't know how it was possible technically. To me, it was like a front end solution or something like that because you were able to buy purchase layer two, the same NFT. Either you were on you were operating on layer one or layer two, you have the same chance to collect the NFT, but the NFT was just visible within the marketplace. Know, if, for example, I minted something on layer two there, then I could move those NFTs onto layer one. And, for example, having it under my, you know, main net MetaMask, but it wasn't possible to visualize to visualize them, you know, for example, on OpenSea or other marketplaces.
So I don't know technically what's the the the the answer, but, yeah, it was something they were allowing you to to do.
Fabio That that's great because what you said now was exactly one of my next questions. Is, like, for example, let's talk about the base, chain. Is a base NFT visible everywhere where where we have, like, Ethereum? So for example, if I have a a non cyber gallery, am I able to display my base NFTs in that gallery too, or do they need to write, like, a code first to make that possible?
Speaker 2 Oh oh, so so it's for Ben. Yeah.
Ben So it'll depend on the marketplace. Just like anything, if SuperRare isn't, you know, going to allow you to see other chains or support other chains, you wouldn't be able to see it there. If OpenSea does, if Magic Eden does, Foundation, you Rarible, you can you can see the NFTs on the, you know, chains that they support. So because it all uses the same wallet address, they're there. But just like anything, you know, even the wallet has to support, viewing NFTs or different chains. So you own it. It's on the chain, and it's associated with your wallet, but the visibility is going to depend on the marketplace or the gallery if we're talking about deck DeCA or, gallery.so. It it all depends on what they support.
Fabio Okay. But that case, that will be another reason to have a solution to just bridge it to the main net. If you have a gallery which does not support, like, layer twos, it will be great to just send it to your main net wallet or to your main net address, and then you can show it. But let's talk about something else, gas. You know, usually, it's like that the more people use the network, the higher are the gas fees. So my question, if more people are using the base, chain, will gas increase? So will the gas be higher than it is now, or will it always stay like that?
Ben No. The price will go up, and we've seen it. They had that happen, a week or two after it came out. They increased, the compute power, on the on the chain, which is something that they could do because of the centralization, and gas prices went back down. And they've talked a little bit about how they're going to scale that and continue to grow the capacity on base. But but yes. And it is a little bit like inception. A layer three is cheaper than a layer two is cheaper than a layer one. But, yes, you can run out of block or blob space on these on these, you know, layer twos, and they do have to make some changes. And then, you know, there is some competition for blob space on the layer one between the different layer twos.
But, yes, essentially, more more users, more more compute, more more blocks, it costs more. So but, layer twos do have the ability to make changes faster, to react to that.
Fabio Well, that that means in a couple of years, we are at layer 55 just to have the same gas fees we have now. Go ahead, Charlie. And Arak? Or
Speaker 1 roughly No. I cannot hear Charlie. I guess, Charlie, if you can hear us, just this Yeah. Let me let
Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah. We Yeah. We can now.
Charlie Works. So let me ask let me ask Ben real quick when it comes down to when it comes down to Base because this is, a topic that we have been talking a lot when it comes down to Zohr Foundation now, etcetera. Let's say something happens to Base or Coinbase, like an FTX. I mean, knocking on wood, of course, like Binance or anything like that that could affect the actual exchange. Will that affect the actual layer two, which is Base, or is not nothing related with the actual exchange?
Ben So there's an interesting article. Let me see. Where is it? I was just I was just looking at this earlier. Base put out an article, and I think Jesse Pollock actually referenced it, that talks about their path to decentralization. So right now, essentially, if Coinbase went bust tomorrow, it would be bad for base. There's a lot of centralization. Essentially, most layer twos are operating off of a multisig. They they have to at first, all the nodes. You know, you can run a base node. Haven't done that yet. It's on my to do list in the next week or two. But, yes. Right now, it would be very bad for, you know, for base if Coinbase were to just disappear tomorrow. That's not gonna happen, but they they wrote a very long post late last year.
Like I said, I'll I'll post a little bit later today that literally talks about how they plan to decentralize the network so that it is more resilient.
Charlie Yeah. So that's the reason why I asked is because I don't want to be dependent on a exchange for my work. So for example, like as you mentioned, if something happens to that chain or that exchange, that will compromise everybody else's were that were involved in that, l two. So that's why I was like, is that a possibility that we can go all go down just because we were actually participating on that l two, which is also tied into that exchange. Hopefully, they actually come up with a solution. I'm pretty sure they will when it comes down to decentralized. And that's why main net Ethereum remain kinda like, prime because you don't you're not relying on exchanges. It's the actual network itself that that you have to, like, focus on, and you don't have to worry about external things that could happen.
And the reason why I brought that up is because of what happened recently to Solana with the FTX, issue, where also the actual network of Solana got affected. And that's why I was wondering if something like that happens to Coinbase, and, and you actually confirmed that it also could be very detrimental to that layer two. When it comes down to bridging, because let's say you already earned some something from NFTs when it comes down to a layer twos, and you wanna bridge it to main net Ethereum. Before, the conversation, you mentioned something when it comes down to seven days. Is there's any way where, artists or users can actually bridge a lot faster, or this is the actual average time that you have to wait from bridging from l two to l one?
Ben Yeah. So bridging from an l one to an l two happens almost instantly. Bridging back out of specifically an optimistic roll up based optimism, there's a I think it's seven days. There's a there's a waiting period, and it has to do with validating proofs and optimistic growth. It's a technological issue in terms of guaranteeing, that everything settles through from the layer two to the layer one, and there aren't any, you know, problems with any transactions. Now, like I said, you can get around that by using the Orbiter or Hop or, one of the other bridging solutions, that will essentially hold the funds in escrow and and and do it for you and charge you a very minimal fee, maybe a dollar or 2 for, you know, hundreds or thousands of dollars of Ethereum.
But, yeah, right now, that's a technical limitation, and that's an issue with the interoperability between different Layer twos and layer one and and speeding up settlement, and there's some there's some different technological issues there. But like I said, you can get around. If you if you go make 2 ETH on a big month on base, you can get your ETH out very quickly.
Charlie Yeah. Because I was wondering, let's say, you make a sale on base, but you wanna transfer that to, let's say, towards your exchange. Do you have to bridge that for it to reach that exchange, or it can just go like that and it's going to be recognized as the actual coin regardless of the layers?
Ben Yeah. So most of the exchanges now are accepting the major layer too. So I was looking the other day. Coinbase, of course, supports base, Arbitrum, Optimum, the major. I think they support Blast, Zora. Kraken, I know, supports Arbitrum, Optimism. Let me think. What's Gemini supports Arbitrum optimism. I do not know, obviously, what finance supports, here in The US. They're not, you know, on on speaking terms as it were with our our country right now, but, at least, those three here in The States, support different, layer twos, and I'm sure that's gonna be more and more common. I mean, you think about it, it's good for the exchanges. Their their fees are cheaper. They can offer a cheaper user experience to their customers to to bridge funds in and out from the central exchange to your wallet.
Speaker 1 Thanks, Ben. I I can confirm Binance also does. So using Binance outside of The US and, yeah, it offers, like, withdraw. For example, you have some heat on layer one. You can withdraw directly on layer on layer two. For example, Ethereum on base with very small fees. And, actually, it's a question that many people always ask, and, I believe that those, exchanges, they basically don't swap beef, between layer one and layer two it, but they just have a big pool of it on, for example, on base and layer one. Then when you act are actually swapping, they are actually just moving some numbers in a spreadsheet, I guess, in a database and sending you, for example, the layer two, it on base when when you withdraw it on layer one. Is that correct, Ben?
Ben Behind the scenes, that is probably correct. They have enough funds, you know, if you're looking at the biggest centralized exchanges, and they have enough funds that it doesn't really matter to them, you know, if they're natively moving them or between different layers or or not, or or how they're handling that. It you know, it's it's like a bank, you know, where where the bank keeps your money, whether they keep it in dollars or euros or t bills or, you know, other different financial instruments. When you go ask for your money out, I don't know that you really care either, you know, as long as they have it. So I would I would assume that is correct, that the centralized exchanges are not keeping, you know, Ether or anything else on layer one, layer two specifically for what you have. They're yeah. They probably have some different agreements and and operating systems on the back end.
Charlie Yeah. I mean, the concern to me is that, let's say, an artist is actually on a drop or or doing their own things individually, and they're actually making sales on ETH base base ETH, and they are actually having that on their Metamask wallet. And now they're trying to exchange it or bridge it back to l one if they want to so they can put it on their exchange. Now as you mentioned, Ben, there are some exchanges that are actually allowing this to happen. But is it is it that easy for you to actually make the transfer, or you have to do some certain steps for that exchange to recognize that specific layer too, prior to actually transferring or sending?
Ben The only big thing you need to do is you need to make sure you know, of course, these big exchanges, it's not exactly the same. When you send, you you generally have them create a wallet address. You know? I'm going to send Ethereum to you. They create a wallet address just for and so, yes, you do have to be careful. If you've created a wallet address for Ethereum layer one at, say, Coinbase, if you send your base or Arbitrum ETH to that address, it may or may not get credited to your account. So, yes, you need to make sure on an address basis that it is set up for the correct layer or network that you are using to send the money in so you don't risk losing your funds. That's a great point.
Charlie So, for example, in my my in my case, I've been having the layer two address same as the layer one. What are the what are the pros and cons on that? Because I was actually very, very adamant when I saw that number as far as my wallet address that is the exact same as the layer one. So I just have to pay attention that is on on, of course, the layer two when I'm actually doing transactions when it comes down to forecaster, etcetera. How is that going to influence the actual transfer or swapping or sending when it comes down to the exchanges or even the ledger.
Ben Yeah. So from a hardware ledger standpoint, you know, from a keeping your own funds safe and sovereign, it doesn't really matter. It should work very seamlessly. And I think with time, it will work even more seamlessly than now. You know, some some wallets already switch networks automatically, you know, and you don't even realize which network, you're connected to, you know, base or Zora or, and I think over time, especially with account abstraction and some other things, you won't even have to worry about bridging the funds. You know? You'll just be connected to Base, and you'll do a transaction, and it'll be the same account. And and the wallet will do the swap on the back end, for free. And that's especially true, I mean, if you're bridging funds between layer twos, arbitrum to base to optimism, the fee is maybe a penny. You know? It's nothing.
And so I think, that'll start to become abstracted from the user, especially layer one to layer two and then all the different layer twos. You won't really notice what you're connecting to, and they'll do those swaps automatically for you. Like I said, the only time you really have to be careful is when you are sending in to a centralized exchange directly from a layer two. You just need to make sure their wallet addresses are set up correctly, and you've selected everything correctly before sending your funds.
Charlie That's amazing. I mean, I hope I'm hoping, crossing fingers here, they actually they come with this type of technology very soon because at the I think that's one of the step backs when it comes down to artists to understand this type of technology because this is not easy to comprehend when into a standpoint when it comes down to, not so much about the minting and the listing, but the what happens after. What do you do after the fact that, let's say, you had a successful drop, what to do next, and what is the next steps, and what is to pay attention and whatnot to really pay attention on what you're doing. So I appreciate you for actually those pointers there, Ben and Devalia as well. But, I don't know if Fabio and Flavio got other questions.
And if not, we're definitely gonna be moving out to what is coming next, which is next week, DAO based drop. With that, Fabio Flavio, anything else to add on this? From my side, I don't I don't
Fabio have don't have some more questions, but maybe someone in the audience, has one. Could be also interesting
Charlie to hear some Absolutely. If you are listening to us right now, episode one of the builders talk, definitely request a mic. You got any questions regarding the topic at hand, definitely do not hesitate and request a mic. We'll definitely gonna leave you the the stage so you can ask the questions, make comments, and anything else. You got probably approximate two minutes to make that decision. And if not, then we're gonna be moving to the next topic. Flavio, please go ahead.
Speaker 1 Yeah. Meantime, while someone is requesting the mic, if they want, I will ask the last question to both Elia and Ben. I am a art collector. Are there any concern for me when I have to buy an article from my favorite artist, for example? Is there any concern? Like, what should should I look at when it comes to layer one and layer two?
Speaker 2 I don't actually get the the the the question, but can you maybe reformulate it, Claudio?
Speaker 1 No. I was just thinking putting myself in the shoes of an art collector, digital art collector, and I want to grab a piece from my favorite artist, then I see they are dropping, for example, on layer two on base. Should I be concerned? Or Ah, got
Speaker 2 it. Got it. Yeah. Are you are you asking if there is some concern for the collectors specific artist if these artists are maybe dropping something on layer two, like, for example, devaluating their their job or something like that. Right?
Speaker 1 Yeah. And and also from sort of technical point of view, like, maybe some of some of the collectors are still old school, if we want to say that. So maybe they don't know how to swap or they just have eaten layer one and they don't want to swap on layer two. Do you think this is a problem right now?
Speaker 2 Well, I know for sure that some of my collectors are not really into, you know, playing around a lot with layers and experimenting with layers. So some of them, not naming, but some of them has stated explicitly that he he's not looking for, you know, real to to to collect something to massively collect something on layer two because he thinks the layer one is, as I said before, is like the gold standard as Ben said before, is the gold standard of the Web3Arc space. So, this is one of the main concerns maybe, but to me it's not concerning if the artist you are collecting is, for example, proposing multiple edition, an open edition or something similar, a free edition on layer two. Again, two in my opinion is for free experimenting and it's for artists to have fun.
I really think in this specific market condition, we are just having a lot of fun there. Right? It was like the desert before. And having this opportunity is great for artists. So they don't need to be concerned on their end, in my opinion they don't need to be concerned about their collectors. If a collector is a real collector, in my opinion, can understand anything. Of course, if you have a curriculum of layer one single editions, you might not be willing to drop a single additional layer too. This
Speaker 2 not something I will do myself, for example. And, yeah, I guess I just keep an eye on the collectors as well. But, yeah, I think that might be the the most concerning thing from the collectors standpoint. If an artist is, like, devaluating his or her art by dropping a lot of valuable stuff on layer two.
Speaker 2 Ben for the technical answer.
Ben I think that's true. I've I've thought through some of these things myself. And when I did my first experimental mint on on an on a layer two on base, like I said, it is a free mint. It was an experimental AI collection, which, you know, typically, my my photographic work tends to command a a price premium, over some of my AI work. And and so, you know, I was intentional with what I chose to release on a layer two. It was something more fun. It was something more experimental. I I do think, so a couple thoughts on that. Number one, most art, we're not talking about on chain, most art that's that's minted on a layer one or layer two, the art is exactly the same from a technical standpoint. It's gonna be on our Weave, or it's gonna be on IPFS.
So we're really talking about a premium for the token and for the visibility of that token. And I think if you stick to the major player twos, like we talked about Optimism, our base, Zohra, they they probably have staying power, right, just because of network effects and other things and and the amount of value that's locked there. That being said, the market has clearly put a premium on art that's on layer one versus layer two. There's two ways of thinking about that. Number one, there'll always be a premium on that, because it's the more premium canvas, if you will, for the token. It's more permanent. It has more history. It's been around longer, and it probably will be around longer.
The other thought process, though, is that there are some early good deals to be had on layer twos, that as, bridging and swaps and all these things become more seamless and more marketplaces, support more layer twos, the user, the collector, may not even realize what what layer or chain they picked up the art piece on. And so foundation's a great example. If you're looking at the piece on foundation, it looks the same, whether it's on base, whether it's on Ethereum layer one. So for instance, I had the opportunity to pick up, Delta Sauces first one of one, minted on base for under 0.15 ETH, and that's a significant premium to what his works are going for, his one of ones are going for on Ethereum layer one. I took the opportunity and snatched it up.
Obviously, I'm counting on we're early, and I think that premium, will erode over time, between layer ones and layer twos. At the same time, you know, you look at you know? What there's two ways to look at this again. If you look at x copy's recent all time high sale, you know, the piece all time high in the city for over $1,000,000 the other day, you know, that was on layer one. You wouldn't see that on layer two, but at the same time, that piece originally sat, I think it was for seven months at $91 before anybody bought it. If you were early and got that x copy piece, now you're very happy. So I think there is opportunity here on these layer twos to collect works. At the same time, I bought a piece from a well known photographer the other day.
We negotiated, and we discussed where we were gonna mint this piece. And he said, I'd really like to mint it on Solana or a Layer two. It's cheaper. And I said, I'm willing to pay you a little extra to mint this on Ethereum Layer one because there is a premium there, you know, and when the difference is a few dollars and we're talking about an established art. So I I do think there's a couple different things to consider there. You have to have your thesis about, where these layer twos are going, but I also think there's some opportunities, and there's some pitfalls. You know? Like Aliyah said, if you see an artist that was traditionally selling one of ones for a certain price point and they start spamming the market, on layer twos just because it's cheap, that would be concerning to me as a collector.
So I think it's a it's a multifaceted situation and answer to that question.
Speaker 1 Thanks, Ben. Thanks, Aliyah. Wonderful answers. I I really care about this topic. I I guess it's really important for me as a, well, photographer artist, but also as an art collectors. I really would like to understand and know point of view of of different people in the space. And, yeah, I have to agree, Ben. I I snatched a piece from Mashiro on foundation limited edition of 10 for 0.01. I was almost crying when I when I bought it because it was on just because it was was on base. I mean, it's one zero one are selling for multiple leads. I mean and I always wanted that piece. So, yes, there are big opportunities, also things to look, to look at when you collect, for example, on, layer two. But I guess, yes, we are we are really, really early. So, yeah, looking forward for how things develop in the future.
Charlie So let's move let's move on. I wanna hear about the the build the builders Mint, that actually is being posted on top by Flavio. I just read that it says one for the r, three for the believers, and 10 for the dGen. Can you explain a little bit when it comes down to what is actually taking place on this Mint on base?
Speaker 1 Oh, thanks, Charlie. So, what you can see here on top, is our Genesis on base from the builder style. The artist is Borje Jose. Maybe you recognize the art. Soho is quite unique, so easy to recognize. I love the art, and this piece was actually being created at the beginning of the year when we were planning, the road map for the builder style. So you can see building of different cities, Milan, Lisbon, etcetera, Paris, which are the places some of the things that we have or exhibition that we have done, like NFT Paris. We have in And to do something in Lisbon, in Milan at the end of the year, etcetera. So it's a sort of road map, ideal road map for, the builders for 2024. We wanted to drop it towards the q one of this year, but then the situation wasn't right.
So we just wanted to wait a little bit. And now with this opportunity on on layer two, with base, we decided to, drop this artwork, which, as it says, one for the art because, one is the artist I I'm a lover. I am I really love Bora Jozi art. So if you love the art, you have to collect at least one. Three for the believers and 10 for the. We can we don't want to share everything right now because there are a lot of factors and mark market condition that can change. But as Ben was saying before, layer two allows you to make a lot of gamification. So we are planning some burning, on this, on this piece. And depending on how many you have, you can burn, of course, more or less, and you can receive different benefits. So that's the overall idea.
And if you if you like the piece or if you are a believer or a, I I really encourage you to have a look and mint one is is a free mint. So you just pay the gas fee. And, yeah, we we also wanted to have a little bit of fun with forecast there and the and the lead gen allowance that we have with the builders now. So, yeah, we we want to, again, experiment and have fun. So that's the main idea behind this drop.
Charlie Awesome. Actually, I'm glad that you mentioned Podcaster too because it's a hot topic as well. And there there's a lot of issues happening there lately, from from the points, from the allowance, from now images. It it's kinda like a challenge to be there, but, nonetheless, it's very fun to be on that platform because of the connections and things that are happening there on the daily. So definitely looking forward to this pre mint as well. I'm actually looking forward to mint one myself. But at the same time, when I mint, I don't even know where those NFTs go. So this is a question to Ben and Javelia. When you are minting, whether it's in Sora, whether it's on Foundation, where are those NFTs going if I'm buying from, for example, MetaMask? Where are they going?
Speaker 2 Well, they are going right under your MetaMask address, I I think. So the point is maybe where you can visualize them. You can properly visualize them because the the NFT is under your contract. So, yeah, it's it's on the blockchain. But the visualization of the NFT is provided by different, you know, marketplaces. But, yeah, it it brings back the Ben's words he stated before, it's basically up to the marketplace to implement or not implement a specific network or specific chain. So I'd say that, yeah, when when you buy when you collect something based on layer two in general, you will be able to see to enjoy the NFT everywhere the chain is implemented. I I think this can
Charlie Oh, that makes sense. Yeah. Ben, please.
Ben Yeah. I think that's a good answer. From a technical standpoint, you know, that token is being written to the blockchain, and the ownership is being associated with your wallet, you know, the same address, whatever layer it's on. Especially, these are, like we said, EVM compatible. You know, they're they're they're just layer twos of Ethereum. So, however, you know, even if the marketplaces did not support it for some reason, you can go on to, you know, Etherscan, BaseScan, OP scan, ARB scan. And you you know, if you really wanted to, you could go look up that transaction, look up that token. You would look at the metadata, you know, in text. You would look at what it's pointing to, you know, Rweave or IPFS, and you could go pull your image up and verify and see what you meant it.
So even if, you know, no marketplace has supported it, you you could still go see that you own the token and it points to this image, and you could go look at your image. A little bit more technical, but that's the that's the more technical answer.
Charlie Yeah. Because the reason why I asked that, because when I I was able to mint something from, for example, Claire, I was able to go to my MetaMask base Ethereum, network, and I went to click on NFT, and that wasn't there. So that kinda, like, raised concerns because I knew I got it because I checked on Etherscan, but I'm not able to visualize it. So so I guess, for example, Metamask is not able to support that function for now. I don't know with further updates if that's going to change, but that kinda, like, raise a concern for me specifically because I'm cool with not seeing it knowing that I got it. But more more people are going to be actually confused for the fact that they're not going to be able to check it on Etherscan or actually have this some sort of technical abilities, and they're going to be actually screaming to the freaking heavens saying that they don't have it.
So that's something that is that needs to be probably raised concern and and more people actually become aware of what's actually happening when it comes down to these marketplaces where they're not giving those type of functionalities when it comes down to visibility through those NFTs when you actually collect them. Flavio, please go ahead.
Speaker 1 Yeah. Charlie, I also wanted to jump in. I had once a similar problem where I minted on Zohra and then well, I did a free mint on Zohra myself, photography, and then people were minting and Zohra was was not showing up the minting. But I guess that's just a front end issue with with Zara, the platform, because the easiest way to check to do it and always works. For example, you open OpenSea, You connect your wallet, your Metamask, whatever, you log in or you check your profile on OpenSea. And OpenSea will actually visualize any anything you have minted on base or layer one, and you cannot actually as as Ben was saying, you cannot see the difference between visually, at least, between a layer one and layer two NFT that you have collected. I also use, floor, the app, which tracks, like, your tokens in your wallet, but also your NFTs, and it's actually cross chain.
So you can connect different wallets. It can be it. It can be also your Solana wallet all in your account. And it's wonderful. I I really I really like it. You see immediately anything that you mean being on Solana, being on it layer one, being on base, and it's it's super quick. You mean, then the one second after you receive the notification from Flora, you can watch your wallet. So I would say if if you have this concern and you are listening, you can check either on OpenSea on your profile or, for example, if you use an app like Flowr that aggregates wallet and different blockchains as well, not just layer. Yeah. That that works very well for me and gives me the peace of mind that I actually minted the piece, and it's, it's in my wallet.
Charlie Awesome. I mean, this is what OpenSea has become from a very strong marketplace to now a place where you can check your l twos, NFTs. This is crazy, man. This is web three right here, everyone. You never know what's going to happen. You have to be fastening your seat belts because it's gonna be a crazy ride. So appreciate you, Flavia, for the for the tips when it comes down to floor and also checking up and see if you actually had any minted NFTs on Zohra. You can actually check them there for visibility purposes. With with that being said, Flavio, definitely, let's let's dive in into the next topic, which is the DAO based drop. Can you talk to us about what is going to happen in the next couple days or so, with this drop?
Speaker 1 Thanks, Charlie. So this the drop of this effort that we made was a sort of first experiment, putting the foot in the water for the DAO, trying to understand the the c the situation, the market. But we are planning, to do, a drop, with the DAO and all the DAO artists or at least the DAO artists that are willing to to drop on foundation on base. So it's actually the twenty fifth of this month, April 25. We are gonna do a community drop with all the artists on foundation and will be on base. So we have created a new world on foundation, which is a world on base, and it's called builders base. We are playing a little bit with the words here. And, yeah, we are we are really excited because, you know, the market has been quite tough for the artist the last couple of months.
And now we can see, like, something moving again before with Solana, now with layer two on base and other layers layers too. So, yeah, we are really excited for this drop. I guess artists are excited. Foundation also is gonna support us for this drop, making a a little bit of noise on the social network. So looking forward to to the drop, on foundation, next week, actually. It's, it's very close. Ten days.
Charlie Awesome. Awesome. I'm actually looking forward to this because, I mean, given the track record of the Builders Dow and the events and drops that you guys do, they're actually insane. I remember from day one when you guys started with the with the Milan gallery, that thing to me was impressive. The way that you were able to to actually simultaneously do the drop while presenting it on the live gallery was mind blowing. Also, Liz Bond, I was able to witness what transpired in Solana with the drop as well. Now to base, you guys are moving everywhere, and that was part of the actual plan when it comes down to the road map. I don't think base was part of the even road map, but, like, you're jumping in as it goes. As you were saying, dip dip your toes into the water, but I don't think it's dipping your toes into the water.
You're going for the full dive. You're going on top of the cliff, and you're going for the dive straight up. And it works and it works because, this is the only way for you to learn and to experiment and to grow as an artist and as a actual DAO as well because you are gaining knowledge. And all the members within it, mentioning Ben, Geveli, and many others that have the vast knowledge when it comes down to different chains and what they do and what what are the pros and cons, it brings a lot of value into the DAO. So now my question is the following. Let's say I'm not a DAO member, and I'm listening to this value when it comes down to layer ones and layer twos. And there's a lot of things that I learned today.
But if I wanna become part of the DAO and basically be part of these drops and things that are going to happen in the future, exhibition, RLs, etcetera, how do I become a a DAO member or actually attempt to be a DAO member?
Speaker 1 Oh, thanks, Charlie. Great question, and I'm glad you brought this up. So there are two main ways to join the DAO as an artist. You can go in our website, which is on our bio on Twitter. I can also post something here in the space after I I finish I finish to speak, but they can go on the website, the DAO website, the buildersdao.xyz. There is a section there to apply as an artist. So you can apply, and we review entries monthly. And we select two or three artists every month to join the DAO for free. But, of course, there is a little bit of queuing there. I think we have now around 200 artists that have applied overall. So every month, we go through again and again the entire list of artists that have applied, and then we vote in our Discord to select two or three artists.
That that is a way. The other way is the well, easiest and simple and quickest is to grab a builder's pass, which, again, you can find our bio. There is our link tree. And and there you can find the link to buy a builder's pass, which gives you, well, a physical pass, which we will be shipping to your own, but also gives you, like, lifetime access to the DAO and many other benefits, which I'm not here to talk about. Otherwise, we would need an entire space. But, yes, if you if you like what we do, you would like to be part of the DAO, the easiest way is for sure to go and grab a builder's pass, which is 0.16. Right now, every batch of 10 is going up in price. So, yeah, we are here for anything else, and we are doing also those weekly spaces now every week.
But we should say, Charlie, that next week, it's not gonna be on Mondays, exceptionally, but we will do a special, space, on Wednesday. We will talk about, again, Forecaster, and we will talk about our drop, which which will be the next day, the following day of the space.
Charlie Perfect. Like, that's on what's on the menu next week? Instead of Mondays, it's definitely going to be Wednesday. We're gonna be talking about Forecaster part two. I mean, you know, that's the hot topic, man. And when I'm becoming Forecast rich or Degen rich, I'm definitely gonna be jumping on this builder's pass as well. You already know what time it is. Huge thanks to the Ben Meadows. Huge thanks to Develia with the vast amount of knowledge and wisdom when it comes down to l ones and l twos. I sure learned a lot when it comes down to understanding how to navigate, the different layers and how many layers and the bridging and many other things. We definitely have to do a part two of this because this is a very fascinating, and this is, believe it or not, is going to be the future from now on.
So you gotta hop in and learn as much as you can as an artist to to actually be able to understand and not be overwhelmed with these technologies that are happening day by day. With that said, appreciate you all for being here. Definitely wanna leave the closing remarks to the guests and then, of course, Fabio and Flavio, then we actually rug in the space. Ben, please go ahead.
Ben No particular closing remarks other than thank you for having me on again. This was this was fun. I always enjoy talking about new technology and new ways that we as artists and collectors can experiment. Again, we're early. That's why we're seeing some of these growing pains. But, you know, it's always good to try new things. Sometimes it's good just from an expanding your mind and experience standpoint, and sometimes it's good for your pocketbook. So I would just encourage everybody to get out there and experiment with layer ones, layer twos, with Farcaster. That's what we're all here for. We see a decentralized vision for the future for artists, for collectors. And so love talking about this, and thank you for having me on again.
Speaker 2 Yeah, guys. Just last thank you, everyone, for having me today and for listening to my stories and stuff. And, yeah, I just second what Ben said. And as an artist, feel free to experiment wherever you want and have fun. This is what you need right now. So thanks again.
Charlie Appreciate you both. You guys are actually excellent in why you guys are talking. The the experience that you guys had is insane. So it is when it comes down to the DAO itself, it's like it feels like you are part of the Avengers. Like, everybody assembling with their own different crafts and knowledge and wisdom. Right? Like, the everybody have to contribute somehow, somewhere. When it comes down to different realms or art or technology, etcetera. So it's fascinating to me to actually hear you guys, week to week. With that said, Fabio, any last words? And then, Flavio, as well to close.
Fabio Man, the only thing I can say is thank you so much to Ben and Elia for all this information. Like you said, Charlie, it was I learned many new things. You know? For me, always, the two was some kind of magic. I know that they are somewhere, but don't know exactly how they work. So now I know much, much, much more. So thanks a lot for that, guys.
Speaker 1 Thanks, Fabio, I guess, just, before closing, again, big, big thank you, Ben. Thank you, Elia, for, navigate us into the different blockchain layers. And as well, thank you so much, Charlie, Fabio, for costing this space with us today. And, yes, I'm really looking forward to meet you again next week for our next phase, and have a good day.